To all breeders who sell seeds

[Snip]Despite the tag of calling yourself a breeder or being called one, it is a gamble as to the outcome of your offerings. If we look at their selection process, we would realize it's based on personal preference beit financial or otherwise. So you will always have this hype train no matter if pictures are shown or not. To suggest that a picture or some sort of documentation to the public will lead to a better financial decision is just as dangerous as no pictures or documentation. [Snip]
Ahem. I am OF THE OPINION that if actual "breeding" had been done you should have narrowed down the gene pool to a couple of pheno types. And if you're offering F1 POLYHYBRID POLLEN CHUCKS then you need to make that clear. Otherwise the picture on the seed pack is the prize winning pheno that I bought the seeds to find and I should be able to find something close in 20 seeds.

Like these old days you mentioned... where people did breeding to narrow down the phenos to you gonna find a tall one and a scraggly pheno. Both will be great and one will be close to the picture on the box.


That's just my opinion.
 
Working on getting permission to release seeds ive worked with over the last 20 yrs….
In 2004 i open pollenated all my indoor clone onlies with two outdoor males. Out of respect i removed all the labels and mixed the seed and never sold any seeds and gave away only a few hundred in person and online. Ive bred in two directions and 20 yrs laters id like to start a thread showing how i have steared in these two directions and also give homage to the breeders and chance for them to lay claim to the chemotype, genotype or phenotype they think they see in the current offsprings…

What do you guys think? Have i went far enough and put enough work in to it to add my name to the crosses? How else would i name these wild mutts of mine…


Peace and Og Grease
 
my mentor friend told me to do that, put all the seeds in the same container because you'll be searching through them all equivalently, I mean I seen some weird stuff some of which persists in this very thread, I do appreciate pictures because of the early markers I'm looking for with my eyes, but I know for sure end of day you can't tell if your selections were correct without smoking it. Also different worked strains have different early markers and you might not even know what they are you sort of have to guess based on the early indicators from other lines you know about for sure

just has me laughing 20 years of shitty bmw driving schnooks fussing with a loupe over some pot then they drop 30K on it without ever smoking it.

I mean if you can predict that the pot seeds you have will definitely reproduce certain things, thats the same thing the farmers in Africa and Asia were doing, they got tall plants for the fields in the summer, short plants for the hills in the rainy season, fat seeds to feed to the animals, small seeds which may have more drug traits sometimes, all in the same line.

for me I'm surprised in 10 years how many different things I was able to find that fit my feeding schedule which to me is most important thing to look for, will this plant work with the way I feed my other plants, because if not I have to do more work to set up a new feed system for this plant.

Which leads me to the main thing, I never once seen a seed pack with photos of the leaves of both parents and I never once seen a seed pack that told you how to feed the damn thing and make it work, if everyone is buying these seeds to grow pot and have excellent stuff, shouldn't some instructions of how to run the plant so it comes out good enough be part of the package when you pay the money? I mean these were closely held trade secrets 20 years ago but I really don't see why not share that info these days.

I'm talking about 3 things I know about so far if you know a similar one please share it, some plants gets bigger with calmag, some plants gets bigger / better with late flower calcium or magnesium or both, some plants gets stronger high or bigger or both with tons of monopotassium phosphate at the flip and early flower.

What I heard is that after 40 years of trying to take something excellent and improve it and not being able to, the best goal of the breeder was to keep his excellent thing the same over many decades as the people before him did to keep that thing excellent and the same over many centuries.

Also breeding is kind of the same for weed, strawberries, snap peas, chickens, dogs, horses or whatever else so you can use tips and techniques you find in those other disciplines on weed and it will work most of the time. For instance if you want to find everything thats negative in a line (genetic diseases) breed the brother to the sister.

That one might work better for dogs but you get the idea.

also there is an excellent book about how Genealogical evidence interacts with the legal system by Noel Stevenson you can read it for free here:


but really the standard is what is in front of your eyes, all the background provenance is helpful in searching out what you're looking for, but if you don't know what you are looking for looks like, it won't help you and also shouldn't be the final measure. End of day the only thing that matters to the pageant judge is the example in front of the eyes or in the case of pot plants lungs also.

thats my 2c thanks for letting me rant like a madman
 
my mentor friend told me to do that, put all the seeds in the same container because you'll be searching through them all equivalently, I mean I seen some weird stuff some of which persists in this very thread, I do appreciate pictures because of the early markers I'm looking for with my eyes, but I know for sure end of day you can't tell if your selections were correct without smoking it. Also different worked strains have different early markers and you might not even know what they are you sort of have to guess based on the early indicators from other lines you know about for sure

just has me laughing 20 years of shitty bmw driving schnooks fussing with a loupe over some pot then they drop 30K on it without ever smoking it.

I mean if you can predict that the pot seeds you have will definitely reproduce certain things, thats the same thing the farmers in Africa and Asia were doing, they got tall plants for the fields in the summer, short plants for the hills in the rainy season, fat seeds to feed to the animals, small seeds which may have more drug traits sometimes, all in the same line.

for me I'm surprised in 10 years how many different things I was able to find that fit my feeding schedule which to me is most important thing to look for, will this plant work with the way I feed my other plants, because if not I have to do more work to set up a new feed system for this plant.

Which leads me to the main thing, I never once seen a seed pack with photos of the leaves of both parents and I never once seen a seed pack that told you how to feed the damn thing and make it work, if everyone is buying these seeds to grow pot and have excellent stuff, shouldn't some instructions of how to run the plant so it comes out good enough be part of the package when you pay the money? I mean these were closely held trade secrets 20 years ago but I really don't see why not share that info these days.

I'm talking about 3 things I know about so far if you know a similar one please share it, some plants gets bigger with calmag, some plants gets bigger / better with late flower calcium or magnesium or both, some plants gets stronger high or bigger or both with tons of monopotassium phosphate at the flip and early flower.

What I heard is that after 40 years of trying to take something excellent and improve it and not being able to, the best goal of the breeder was to keep his excellent thing the same over many decades as the people before him did to keep that thing excellent and the same over many centuries.

Also breeding is kind of the same for weed, strawberries, snap peas, chickens, dogs, horses or whatever else so you can use tips and techniques you find in those other disciplines on weed and it will work most of the time. For instance if you want to find everything thats negative in a line (genetic diseases) breed the brother to the sister.

That one might work better for dogs but you get the idea.

also there is an excellent book about how Genealogical evidence interacts with the legal system by Noel Stevenson you can read it for free here:


but really the standard is what is in front of your eyes, all the background provenance is helpful in searching out what you're looking for, but if you don't know what you are looking for looks like, it won't help you and also shouldn't be the final measure. End of day the only thing that matters to the pageant judge is the example in front of the eyes or in the case of pot plants lungs also.

thats my 2c thanks for letting me rant like a madman
I just popped some 20 yr old seeds two weeks ago…ill be doing back flips if i find some phenos that resemble their great great great great great…etc. grand children!

This is fun right!?!?!
 
my mentor friend told me to do that, put all the seeds in the same container because you'll be searching through them all equivalently, I mean I seen some weird stuff some of which persists in this very thread, I do appreciate pictures because of the early markers I'm looking for with my eyes, but I know for sure end of day you can't tell if your selections were correct without smoking it. Also different worked strains have different early markers and you might not even know what they are you sort of have to guess based on the early indicators from other lines you know about for sure

just has me laughing 20 years of shitty bmw driving schnooks fussing with a loupe over some pot then they drop 30K on it without ever smoking it.

I mean if you can predict that the pot seeds you have will definitely reproduce certain things, thats the same thing the farmers in Africa and Asia were doing, they got tall plants for the fields in the summer, short plants for the hills in the rainy season, fat seeds to feed to the animals, small seeds which may have more drug traits sometimes, all in the same line.

for me I'm surprised in 10 years how many different things I was able to find that fit my feeding schedule which to me is most important thing to look for, will this plant work with the way I feed my other plants, because if not I have to do more work to set up a new feed system for this plant.

Which leads me to the main thing, I never once seen a seed pack with photos of the leaves of both parents and I never once seen a seed pack that told you how to feed the damn thing and make it work, if everyone is buying these seeds to grow pot and have excellent stuff, shouldn't some instructions of how to run the plant so it comes out good enough be part of the package when you pay the money? I mean these were closely held trade secrets 20 years ago but I really don't see why not share that info these days.

I'm talking about 3 things I know about so far if you know a similar one please share it, some plants gets bigger with calmag, some plants gets bigger / better with late flower calcium or magnesium or both, some plants gets stronger high or bigger or both with tons of monopotassium phosphate at the flip and early flower.

What I heard is that after 40 years of trying to take something excellent and improve it and not being able to, the best goal of the breeder was to keep his excellent thing the same over many decades as the people before him did to keep that thing excellent and the same over many centuries.

Also breeding is kind of the same for weed, strawberries, snap peas, chickens, dogs, horses or whatever else so you can use tips and techniques you find in those other disciplines on weed and it will work most of the time. For instance if you want to find everything thats negative in a line (genetic diseases) breed the brother to the sister.

That one might work better for dogs but you get the idea.

also there is an excellent book about how Genealogical evidence interacts with the legal system by Noel Stevenson you can read it for free here:


but really the standard is what is in front of your eyes, all the background provenance is helpful in searching out what you're looking for, but if you don't know what you are looking for looks like, it won't help you and also shouldn't be the final measure. End of day the only thing that matters to the pageant judge is the example in front of the eyes or in the case of pot plants lungs also.

thats my 2c thanks for letting me rant like a madman
Many good points in your post.

Also, it's hard to please every plant, even in a pack, let alone if trying to grow multiple 'strains'. If a person can figure out what grow method suits their schedule, ability, and pocket book...and then find the plant that does best in those perimeters, it's less frustrating than trying to please each and every individual plant. I like to keep in mind that just because a plant or 'strain' doesn't do well in a certain setup, it doesn't mean that it/they are junk. If i were deadset on growing one clone, i would certainly bow to it's reported preferences, and strive to keep it in perfect environment. Yet, i think that with seeds, that just isn't quite as easy.

I've noticed over the decades that many of the old cultivars got a bad rap. Skunk, NL, and many others got severely criticized. Well, now the tables have turned, and they are being sought after, and applauded for their potency, etc. Humans are a strange species.
 
Congratulations! I've been running through my seeds from the 90s and having not much luck. Hopefully I can get some to pop up soon. I got a couple hundred left.
Were they bred outdoor organic? Mine were and some dont pop and some take longer but the few that make it threw have a chance to get a nice bx1 going!!

Edit: i really wouldnt know but i heard that indoor synthetic grown old seeds are very tough to get going…
 
Many good points in your post.

Also, it's hard to please every plant, even in a pack, let alone if trying to grow multiple 'strains'. If a person can figure out what grow method suits their schedule, ability, and pocket book...and then find the plant that does best in those perimeters, it's less frustrating than trying to please each and every individual plant. I like to keep in mind that just because a plant or 'strain' doesn't do well in a certain setup, it doesn't mean that it/they are junk. If i were deadset on growing one clone, i would certainly bow to it's reported preferences, and strive to keep it in perfect environment. Yet, i think that with seeds, that just isn't quite as easy.

I've noticed over the decades that many of the old cultivars got a bad rap. Skunk, NL, and many others got severely criticized. Well, now the tables have turned, and they are being sought after, and applauded for their potency, etc. Humans are a strange species.
Well said… two things come to mind, how unique we all are and how bottle necking ibls could be in one direction better for one person but worse in the other direction for another… giving polyhybrids a chance to find a home in someones garden like those folks who dont want a couchlocking night night indica or a soaring electric inspiring/paranoia sativa…but something in the middle rather like a roller coaster….

Alot of my sativas that have been tamed for an indoor max yield project have that roller coaster effect rather then a straight shot for the moon…

Just ranting

Peace and Og grease
 
Were they bred outdoor organic? Mine were and some dont pop and some take longer but the few that make it threw have a chance to get a nice bx1 going!!

Edit: i really wouldnt know but i heard that indoor synthetic grown old seeds are very tough to get going…
99% outdoor bagseed im sure.. most don't ever pop. Some pop but never come out the soil. It's like they don't have any energy left to start growing. I'm currently trying to use gibberelic(sp?) Acid but instructions unclear. Not sure how many ppms I'm mixing so trial-and-error right now.
 
Working on getting permission to release seeds ive worked with over the last 20 yrs….
In 2004 i open pollenated all my indoor clone onlies with two outdoor males. Out of respect i removed all the labels and mixed the seed and never sold any seeds and gave away only a few hundred in person and online. Ive bred in two directions and 20 yrs laters id like to start a thread showing how i have steared in these two directions and also give homage to the breeders and chance for them to lay claim to the chemotype, genotype or phenotype they think they see in the current offsprings…

What do you guys think? Have i went far enough and put enough work in to it to add my name to the crosses? How else would i name these wild mutts of mine…


Peace and Og Grease
Those sound interesting. I love popping old beans! Could care less about the new best. I have boxes of old seeds and can’t seem to get even one to open. I’ve tried every way I could find. A few tiny tails will emerge then death. I had one weak seedling about an inch come up but didn’t stand a chance. I even learned tissue culture and built a lab to pop these seeds. I have to assume they’re all dead.
 
Those sound interesting. I love popping old beans! Could care less about the new best. I have boxes of old seeds and can’t seem to get even one to open. I’ve tried every way I could find. A few tiny tails will emerge then death. I had one weak seedling about an inch come up but didn’t stand a chance. I even learned tissue culture and built a lab to pop these seeds. I have to assume they’re all dead.
Popping old seed is one my favorite threads, there all over the interwebs! The coolest ever concepts i ran into was about the latent seed bank under our feet. Long story short… theres seeds in our soil hundreds of years old that still germinate till this day. So theres hope!
 
99% outdoor bagseed im sure.. most don't ever pop. Some pop but never come out the soil. It's like they don't have any energy left to start growing. I'm currently trying to use gibberelic(sp?) Acid but instructions unclear. Not sure how many ppms I'm mixing so trial-and-error right now.
@stihgnobeboli

Your comment triggered a thought that I had intended to address at some point and now seems like the perfect time. You said; "Some pop but never come out the soil." I am a soil grower and because the soil I have is so heavy, many of my "freshly made" seeds struggle at times to push out of the soil.

I have come to adopt a new approach and that is to pop the beans in a wet paper towel (I use a specific type... not all work the same; towel that is) and place them in a sandwich bag. In the past, I used to let them sit in a dark cupboard and would take them out periodically to hold up against a bright light, allowing it to shine through the bag and towel to see how the root(s) are developing. Once I had the first one with a tap root about 20mm long, I'd plant all of the seeds. I find that this approach was the wrong approach. Now, I do exactly the same thing, but I don't plant any individual seed unless the tap root is at least 20mm long, and when I do, I leave the cracked seed pod close to the surface of the soil. "If" I have any of the roots growing through the towel, or stuck to it, I simply cut that little bit of towel and plant the seed with the towel left intact... I have never seen a negative outcome by doing this.

I posted a thread on how I do mine if you are the least but interested, here is the link: https://thecannacabana.com/forums/threads/transplanting-hack.42821/

I was being lazy by wanting to plant all of the seeds at the same time and that was causing me problems. I suppose another modification could be to plant the tap root, leave the cracked seed pod on the surface of the soil, and cover the seed pod with a light layer of moss instead of the soil. Because I re-pot the seedlings about 7 -10 days after I put them in the cones, I always have an opportunity to back fill the seedling a little deeper (with soil) if need be.

I will say though, that the seed pods themselves with the cultivar I work with have a 50/50 chance of having the seed case trap or stick to the cotyledons... I regularly have to remove them manually with tweezers... this would be a colossal PITA if you were a commercial grower; and it pretty much adds another strike (amongst many) against the particular cultivar I have. (But they are mine and I love them for what they are.) However, if you follow the plant count limits in your jurisdiction, the numbers we are allotted don't have this a huge task... it just becomes a bit more of a challenge as we age,; with all the shaking and poor(er) vision we tend to get.
 
Just wondering in this day and age why does not every strain your trying to sell have pictures on your site when I see a strain I'm interested in but no pictures all I can think is you never grew that strain out yourself in fact I think the sites that have multiple pic up I more likely to buy unless I know someone who has ran it not trying to be nasty just wondering what the reason would be to not snap off some pictures of it when it's flowering and finished product just looking for some nice polite answers maybe it's just me but when I'm looking for something different and looking to go out on a limb for something and there are no pictures I'm on to the next
Agree 100%. With the seed market being soooo competitive one would think that you would do all you can to highlight your seeds. There are some top breeders that do amazing things for the gene pool but also do half ass job of presenting those genetics.
 
Agree 100%. With the seed market being soooo competitive one would think that you would do all you can to highlight your seeds. There are some top breeders that do amazing things for the gene pool but also do half ass job of presenting those genetics.
That is probably true. Yet, to be a 'great' breeder would take a lot of time and energy, i would assume. Keeping on top of the 'presentation' might require another person that has that time and energy, plus the techie skills. That would be an added hire, unless a family member or friend could be 'utilized'.
 
That is probably true. Yet, to be a 'great' breeder would take a lot of time and energy, i would assume. Keeping on top of the 'presentation' might require another person that has that time and energy, plus the techie skills. That would be an added hire, unless a family member or friend could be 'utilized'.
It is a rare person who possesses all of the skills to run a fully well managed business. Most people are good at the "doing", but not so good at "the books"...
 
Sure, no doubt alot of time and energy. As buyers of anything, consumers like to know about what there purchasing. It's a waist of the breeders efforts IMO. Even some of the top breeders in the game that hold on to real deal elite cuts or make killer crosses fall super short. Maybe i should post a list of which breeders IMO market there seeds and web site the best, Only the good ones, dont need to name any bad ones....what do ya think? Yes/No.
 
Sure, no doubt alot of time and energy. As buyers of anything, consumers like to know about what there purchasing. It's a waist of the breeders efforts IMO. Even some of the top breeders in the game that hold on to real deal elite cuts or make killer crosses fall super short. Maybe i should post a list of which breeders IMO market there seeds and web site the best, Only the good ones, dont need to name any bad ones....what do ya think? Yes/No.
It's not a lot different than searching for a new puppy. You can meet the owners of the dogs, the breeders male and female breeding dogs, and all the puppies together... there is still not telling what you are going to end up with once that pup matures... he could lick you to death, or rip your neighbours... never mind...

Personally and respectfully, i'd for-go the list, everyone here has made bigger choices in life than what cannabis seeds they are going to buy and from whom...
 
Sure, no doubt alot of time and energy. As buyers of anything, consumers like to know about what there purchasing. It's a waist of the breeders efforts IMO. Even some of the top breeders in the game that hold on to real deal elite cuts or make killer crosses fall super short. Maybe i should post a list of which breeders IMO market there seeds and web site the best, Only the good ones, dont need to name any bad ones....what do ya think? Yes/No.
Why not…
 
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