To all breeders who sell seeds

DMAN said:
There should be no guarantees with cannabis seeds. For example every environment is different. You can't expect the exact same outcome as the breeders grows, unless your environment is identical to the breeders. Rarely is this the case. Feminized seeds is another great example. Intersex is a strong trait in Fem's, regardless of how recessive it is. Thinking you're not going to see Intersex in any Fem'd strain is naive. This is just as true with Reg's. I can tell you one thing for sure, all the current breeders here (and ones added in the future) are extremely ethical, and are fully vetted by this community. Does that mean all of their genetics are 100% guaranteed to be absolute winners in every pack? Absolutely not. There's just far too many variables from seed for any guarantees (other than germination). When dealing with any cannabis strain, it should be up the growers to do their own due diligence from multiple sources. This allows the grower to see if the genetics align to the breeders descriptions. Dealing with seed will always be Caveat Emptor. If one wants absolute surety, they should be growing from clones, and not from seed.
Click to expand...
Zackly, Even clones can have differences if their environment is different.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
Despite the tag of calling yourself a breeder or being called one, it is a gamble as to the outcome of your offerings. If we look at their selection process, we would realize it's based on personal preference beit financial or otherwise. So you will always have this hype train no matter if pictures are shown or not. To suggest that a picture or some sort of documentation to the public will lead to a better financial decision is just as dangerous as no pictures or documentation. The individual can always edit pictures or use various pictures that were not posted to suggest uniformity, health and/or trich production. Once you make the purchase, your outcome will not bring your money back and if you have a different outcome, it will always be suggested you did something wrong or your grow room wasn't dialed in. Let's also not forget that others will choose sides and ultimately you will not only have a loss of time and money but also an attack on your skills and knowledge of growing healthy plants. You can go back to some of the older forums to find this has occurred for over 30 years and the outcome is the same. The older heads around here know exactly what Im suggesting. How many of us have purchased certain nutrients just because someone online said it worked and pictures were shown? When our outcome was different, another additive was suggested (Cal-Mag). Later we were made to believe it was our lack of skill or water source. Now that legalization is prevalent, we are pushed to the side by those that call our methods (bro-science)! Whats next? Lastly, no one wants to be wrong or seem inadequate in the public eyes. This leaves the door open for dishonesty and contempt. Yet, your money and time can not be recovered.
Click to expand...
Well said! I’ve seen this new generation of seed makers use other growers photos. I assume the older gen of seed makers did the same. I think photos would at least document the fact that the seeds were actually tested and not just passed out. There’s no true way to vet a seed other than the documentation provided by the person providing the seeds. I believe csi has done the work. I assume others have to it’s just hard to filter them out of the mix.
The other issue with photos is environmental changes to pheno types. I have made seeds for ever and when I pass them out to others the finished product is almost always a little different. I’ve found that it’s important to find phenos that grow well in your environment. This is why I make almost all my own seed stock. In the past couple years I’ve been experimenting with other genitics, but have yet to add one selection to my library. I haven’t added one since 2014 when I got gg4. I enjoy the verity of flavors but always fall back on my hybrids from days gone by.
 
From many years of creating seed, a 10 pack of anything is basically a crap shoot. One buyer gets his ten pk, and scores some nice plants, maybe even a keeper, other guy gets nothing worth a rip. It takes many many years of combining large populations to create a decent line. It’s not happening with one on one combinations.

The term Breeder imo is a miss used term in the cannabis world today, back in the day there were guys you could call a cannabis breeder, very few come to mind today.
 
As someone who's grown a large amount of seed varieties in small numbers over the years, I think you can get a pretty good representation of something with just a couple seeds.
If a cross is as advertised I can usually see both parents in the offspring with just a couple females. Perhaps not the best combination and representation, but if I grow a bubbleberry from seed I should be able to identify both Blueberry and Bubblegum in there to some extent. Will it be as good as a select Bubbleberry clone being traded around for years selectedfrom hundreds of siblings? Probably not, but I should be able to find both Blueberry and Bubblegum character in a Blueberry Bubblegum cross.
 
I've seen many people with intention accomplish massive things, while tons of people without fail in leaps and bounds.Just because you can run more then someone else doesnt mean you can make better selections,just means you have more to choose from.
So much is subjective with cannabis.If you are making good selections you like with healthy plants and other people like them,good job.Nay sayers will always pull you down and project their failures on to you.
 
Growhumboldt said:
I agree 100%. If the breeder can’t show a photo they either didn’t grow one out or it was crappy and didn’t want to show it. I know csi grows out his genetics I’m just not sure why he doesn’t post photos? I trust his work so I buy from him anyway, but would like to see photos of each pheno if possible.

These days there are as many breeders as growers. I don’t understand how a few dozen different strains can make 1000’s of combos? Seems overdone in my opinion. I’ve been making seeds for decades and haven’t ever sold one. I prefer to give them away to local friends. Up until about 2 years ago when I found csi I hadn’t ever purchased a seed. Most clones were about 10$ from Jodery and I still have many of the classics.
Click to expand...
I wish I could post pictures up of all my hybrids, S1's, etc...I just rarely have enough time...I grow most of what I sell, I take tons of pics but run out of time. I barely have enough time to merely list the hybrids on my site. I have a couple million pics of everything I've grown on sd cards and Zip drives but have not managed to sort through and organize them, also I'm not the most computer literate. Maybe one day I'll get them sorted. I think my main problem is I grow too much and don't leave enough time for the rest?
 
Nspecta said:
I wish I could post pictures up of all my hybrids, S1's, etc...I just rarely have enough time...I grow most of what I sell, I take tons of pics but run out of time. I barely have enough time to merely list the hybrids on my site. I have a couple million pics of everything I've grown on sd cards and Zip drives but have not managed to sort through and organize them, also I'm not the most computer literate. Maybe one day I'll get them sorted. I think my main problem is I grow too much and don't leave enough time for the rest?
Click to expand...
You just dont worry about it, anyone that has been in the game any length of time know full well you do your work justice. Nubs just have to ask around if they have a problem. Can’t make everyone happy all the time.
 
One thing I can trust with CSI gear is genetic provenance. While there may not be a picture for every single listed seed pack, I can at the very least be sure that genetic lineage is correct. With all the work CSI does I would imagine it being quite difficult to post up pics of everything. But at the end of the day I trust Nspecta to list proper lineage and genetic provenance. One of the best in the game, especially for fem seeds. I'm a long time supporter and have grown many of his packs.
 
I trust both CSI and Bodhi through word of mouth and reputation.

But lets be real, the modern hype-strain game is ruthless and legalization has made it even that much more dishonest. There are more inexperienced growers than ever and they're being taken advantage of.

I, personally, would like to see the reputable breeders stand behind their work with more photos and descriptions of phenos and the rates they can be found. I think there needs to be a higher standard. This information exists but nobody is showing it.
 
DMAN said:
There should be no guarantees with cannabis seeds. For example every environment is different. You can't expect the exact same outcome as the breeders grows, unless your environment is identical to the breeders. Rarely is this the case. Feminized seeds is another great example. Intersex is a strong trait in Fem's, regardless of how recessive it is. Thinking you're not going to see Intersex in any Fem'd strain is naive. This is just as true with Reg's. I can tell you one thing for sure, all the current breeders here (and ones added in the future) are extremely ethical, and are fully vetted by this community. Does that mean all of their genetics are 100% guaranteed to be absolute winners in every pack? Absolutely not. There's just far too many variables from seed for any guarantees (other than germination). When dealing with any cannabis strain, it should be up the growers to do their own due diligence from multiple sources. This allows the grower to see if the genetics align to the breeders descriptions. Dealing with seed will always be Caveat Emptor. If one wants absolute surety, they should be growing from clones, and not from seed.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's simply nature of the beast when popping cannabis seeds.

But there are certain traits that have been bred for assuming the grow goes relatively well. And these traits are supposed to show up at a certain rate otherwise what is the breeder doing?
 
dBMachine said:
I agree that it's simply nature of the beast when popping cannabis seeds.

But there are certain traits that have been bred for assuming the grow goes relatively well. And these traits are supposed to show up at a certain rate otherwise what is the breeder doing?
Click to expand...
I agree 100% with what DMAN stated. Most experienced growers know what to expect when getting a pack of seeds... nuff said on that.

What I do not agree with is someone buying a pack of seeds off of a known trusted breeder and selfing them with the intent on undercutting and basically stealing someone else's work, and I've seen enough of that even in my small circle.

The nature of cannabis (wild variability and natural hermie traits) makes it so that the big guys can't corner the market on the industry, otherwise we'd all be buying from the Monsanto's of the world already.

Chances are, if you buy a pack off of a known breeder and you don't find something worth having, YOU are likely the cause of your own disappointment and I don't mean this to harsh on anyone, but inexperience causes more oddities with a cannabis grow than it will with any other crop IMHO...

Buy a pack of Serrano Pepper seeds (or any other plant variety) and you are going to get a pretty good example of a Serrano pepper... it's not the same with cannabis.
 
Just for clarity the "YOU are likely the cause of your own disappointment " is blindly directed at the inexperienced grower (of which I was once one), not at any particular person.
 
I mean, for the price and how much these packs cost the "no guarantees" is a bad deal for the consumer when there is literally zero information on how these beans will turn out.

When the market was still illegal I understood. But things are different now.
 
To me the only thing I really care about from seed sellers is transparency. What is it and what generation is.

IMO its long past time for the Dutch sellers to come clean on what exactly they have now because they have quickly lost relevance keeping everything secret. If I was assured that a lot of those old varieties were f2's now or f1's with skunk or something as opposed to heavily inbred versions of the initial crosses there are quite a few Dutch lines that would still be worth buying. But with no lineage and no info and what generation the seeds are they are not worth the risk to try.
 
midwest said:
To me the only thing I really care about from seed sellers is transparency. What is it and what generation is.

IMO its long past time for the Dutch sellers to come clean on what exactly they have now because they have quickly lost relevance keeping everything secret. If I was assured that a lot of those old varieties were f2's now or f1's with skunk or something as opposed to heavily inbred versions of the initial crosses there are quite a few Dutch lines that would still be worth buying. But with no lineage and no info and what generation the seeds are they are not worth the risk to try.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Transparency and honesty is what I want and is what's missing from modern breeders.

I can go out and buy Acapulco Gold from Barneys Farm and it will flower in 8 weeks. Is that really Acapulco Gold?
 
purpleskunkdutchtreat said:
Just wondering in this day and age why does not every strain your trying to sell have pictures on your site when I see a strain I'm interested in but no pictures all I can think is you never grew that strain out yourself in fact I think the sites that have multiple pic up I more likely to buy unless I know someone who has ran it not trying to be nasty just wondering what the reason would be to not snap off some pictures of it when it's flowering and finished product just looking for some nice polite answers maybe it's just me but when I'm looking for something different and looking to go out on a limb for something and there are no pictures I'm on to the next
Click to expand...
credit card company will stop doing business if they see plants/ buds is why i don't have pix.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top