Relearning hydro

Freakshow

Well-known member
High. Thanks for stopping by. I'm an old dog trying to relearn old and perhaps some new tricks.

I've started a DWC bucket (5 galon size, 3 gallons of solution, AN Sensi Bloom pH perfect (which I'm not quite sold on), hobbyist level additives, Hygrozyme, 2 big air stones powered by a 1268 gph air pump. I have some reflectix somewhat blocking the solar heat. I need to add another piece on top.

I'm having lots of trouble stabilizing the pH in the bucket. I just made a new batch of nutes today. Used mostly tap water (ppm about 300) and pH'd to 5.8. within 12 hours the pH was sitting at 6.9. We're having a warm spell here - supposed to be in the low 90's tomorrow. I have a, 18K BTU mini split cooling the flower room at 76 degrees. The temp of the solution is ranging from 76-80, which I know is high. But I've never had pH swings like this before - not rising that fast, anyway. I've had root rot and pythium in the past that took the pH down pretty hard, but not up this fast.

I'm thinking of scrapping this and waiting a few more weeks for things to cool off a bit more.

any suggestions?
 
increasing the volume of nutrient solution would help if it's feasible in your set up. depending on what dissolved solids your 300 ppm are comprised of, using filter water could help. what's the tap water pH?
 
increasing the volume of nutrient solution would help if it's feasible in your set up. depending on what dissolved solids your 300 ppm are comprised of, using filter water could help. what's the tap water pH?


High certeris paribus, thanks for stopping by
i agree but it's not very feasible to increase the rez size. The pH swing was worse when I was using straight RO. I have placed reflectix around the bucket and on top to help with the temp of the rez
 

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yeah, i wouldn't use straight RO either.

there is a way to increase your res volume, but it's work. you could plumb them together & run a recirculating DWC with an external res. 2 additional advantages to that would be the ability to cool the nutrient solution better with a series of frozen 2 liter bottles of water or a chiller if you want to spring for it, and the opportunity to plumb an inline UV filter to take out pathogens.

sounds like the "wait for a couple weeks" strategy is the likely winner.
 
oh I have a chiller and, F it, i'm breaking that out tonight. I may do the buckets in a series thing but not til the weather cools down a bit more. Great idea. thanks!
 
sadly enough, the pH swings and temps have made the perfect environment for pythium and slime. The plant will probably be tossed this weekend. We had a warm spell hit this week. Adding the chiller would have helped if I had done it a few days ago. Live and learn. Equipment will be bleached and I've got a couple more clones trying to root for when the temps drop next week.


try try try again
 
I've been having great luck with rockwool lately. Not sure what your reasons are for going to hydro etc, but I think if you are in an environment where you are having issues keeping a res cool enough you might be better off going another route. drip fed, or even hand watered rockwool is pretty easy.

How are you PH'ing your water? are you adding ph up/ down prior to the nutrients or ? The whole schtick about that ph perfect line is that it's supposed to be buffered properly to achieve a perfect ph every time..... it obviously is not.... wonder if maybe you got some old yucky nutes or something that they are so unstable?

Also, what additives are you using? i see you mentioned "hobbyist level" additives. If you are just getting back into things w/ hydro, i'd suggest keeping it as simple as possible. 2 part, or a 3 part line, Cal/MG booster and that's it. Once things are working well for you there, maybe then experiment with the extra stuff. Also if it's not from AN, i'd question how it plays with the AN buffering in those PH perfect lines.

I've found that I can still pull a respectable yield off a pretty basic hydro system without all the fancy bells and whistles and snake oils out there.

I also would suggest RO or RODI or distilled water, then you dont have to worry about what your city water treatment plant does to your water chemistry.... it removes a variable. I've had much more consistent results with more consistent water.

THC
 
You might want to dial the air way back, as aerated solutions + beneficial bacteria (Voodoo Juice) + solution temps > 70°F will result in an overabundance of bennies that in and of themselves will mess up pH. Then there's the whole pythium thing....

Larger res and a chiller would help; barring that, frequent change-outs of frozen bottles of water. You could also scrap the Voodoo and use a steriliser like H2O2 or Zone. Is the B organic as well?

Here's Current Culture's Grower's Guide,

http://cch2o.com/rdwc-hydroponics-growers-guide/

many of the Nutrient Considerations suggestions hold true for aerated DWC solutions as well.
 
Couple good articles on water quality and it's implication on hydroponics, organic or otherwise.

http://maximumyield.com/blog/2012/06/01/tap-water-and-its-impact-on-hydro-products/

http://gardening.stackexchange.com/questions/4427/chlorine-vs-chloramine-both-harmful



Some of the chemicals that the city / county may introduce to the water supply can cause harmful effects to your plants, especially if you are using organics / bacterias in your nutrient mix, some of what they put into the water are dis-infecting agents that will kill your additives and cause excess waste to build up in the res.

THC
 
I've been having great luck with rockwool lately. Not sure what your reasons are for going to hydro etc, but I think if you are in an environment where you are having issues keeping a res cool enough you might be better off going another route. drip fed, or even hand watered rockwool is pretty easy.

How are you PH'ing your water? are you adding ph up/ down prior to the nutrients or ? The whole schtick about that ph perfect line is that it's supposed to be buffered properly to achieve a perfect ph every time..... it obviously is not.... wonder if maybe you got some old yucky nutes or something that they are so unstable?

Also, what additives are you using? i see you mentioned "hobbyist level" additives. If you are just getting back into things w/ hydro, i'd suggest keeping it as simple as possible. 2 part, or a 3 part line, Cal/MG booster and that's it. Once things are working well for you there, maybe then experiment with the extra stuff. Also if it's not from AN, i'd question how it plays with the AN buffering in those PH perfect lines.

I've found that I can still pull a respectable yield off a pretty basic hydro system without all the fancy bells and whistles and snake oils out there.

I also would suggest RO or RODI or distilled water, then you dont have to worry about what your city water treatment plant does to your water chemistry.... it removes a variable. I've had much more consistent results with more consistent water.

THC

High THCaesar. You ask some great questions and bring up some great points. My reasons for playiing with hydro is that Im playing, experimenting, etc. I like the yield hydro brings and I'm learning what not to do. I've never had good results with rockwool. Setting up a top feed drip system in this flower room is not n option - I need to stack the tray on the rez and I don't really have the ceiling height for that with he platform I built for the plants to sit upon.
Like I said before, I'm really not sold on the pH perfect line. I always ran the old Sensi Bloom with great results. They rebranded that into the Jungle Juice 2 part which i still use. I'll give the new Sensi Bloom one more shot though. I want to give it a fair chance. The heat wave we just had brought the temps up too high and brought the funk, I think. So, I have a plethora of cuttings rooting and one lucky girl will be chosen to be the next to die at my hands in the hydro bucket. LOL. Hopefully not.

The Nute Line up is:
Sensi Bloom A&B
B52
Big Bud (after the first week in flower, until week 6)
Voodoo Juice (1st 2 weeks of flower only)
Overdrive - week 6- half of 7, plain water after that depending on the flowering time of the strain

the chiller is hooked up and working well and will be in use until outside temps hit the 30's at night on average.

My water is filtered with a Hydro Logic Evolution RO system with the DI post filter. My water reads zero ppm. I did mix in some tap thinking that might help stabilize the ph, but it didn't.



this is a relearning process. I'm gonna kill a plant - I'm prepared for that. By posting this, perhaps someone else will learn as well and not make the mistakes I'm making.

You might want to dial the air way back, as aerated solutions + beneficial bacteria (Voodoo Juice) + solution temps > 70°F will result in an overabundance of bennies that in and of themselves will mess up pH. Then there's the whole pythium thing....

Larger res and a chiller would help; barring that, frequent change-outs of frozen bottles of water. You could also scrap the Voodoo and use a steriliser like H2O2 or Zone. Is the B organic as well?

Here's Current Culture's Grower's Guide,

http://cch2o.com/rdwc-hydroponics-growers-guide/

many of the Nutrient Considerations suggestions hold true for aerated DWC solutions as well.

Hye thanks for stopping by, airedog. That's great info about the benies and excess air. I'm moving a ton of air through the with the almost 1300 ghph pump and 2 big air stones. I'll cut back to one air stone and see how that goes.

Couple good articles on water quality and it's implication on hydroponics, organic or otherwise.

http://maximumyield.com/blog/2012/06/01/tap-water-and-its-impact-on-hydro-products/

http://gardening.stackexchange.com/questions/4427/chlorine-vs-chloramine-both-harmful





Some of the chemicals that the city / county may introduce to the water supply can cause harmful effects to your plants, especially if you are using organics / bacterias in your nutrient mix, some of what they put into the water are dis-infecting agents that will kill your additives and cause excess waste to build up in the res.

THC


with my filters there's nothing in my water with hydrogen and oxygen. Thanks for posting the articles and stioppiung by. I truly appreciate y'all


thank you!
 
Is your tap water disinfected with chlorine or chloramine? Chloramine lasts longer and is cheaper so many municipalities are switching over. It's a bitch to filter out though, KDF filters are recommended but you may still notice a chlorine smell. Both my Growonix RO filtered (with KDF filter), and, commercially RO filtered drinking water has a a smell since the municipality switched over.
 
ok, the hydro plant is dead. I figured it would be more efficient of me to just clean up and start over. The slime won this round.

But, never fear, you can't keep a good Freak down. I scrubbed the buckets, lines and air stones with bleach solution and started 2 more plants last night. OUtside temps are hitting the 40's at night and70's during the day. I don't think we'll see any more high 80's or 90's til next May.

Strains: Blackberry Kush and good Ol' Kali Mist.

ppms and pH as of 10 minutes ago
Blackberry: 300 at 5.8
Kali Mist 270 @ 5.8.

one bucket has Jungle Juice A&B with some B-52. pH perfect? not this bucket. no

the other has Sensi Grow A&B with some B-52. pH perfect? yeah right. LOL. She first went right to 7.1 and I ph'd her down to 5.6 last night. 10 hours later she's at 5.8. I'll take that. But I'm not buying this pH perfect thing.

we'll do a side by side, provided I don't mess things up. I know me well and there's a very good chance I will totally screw this up
 
get r done.

have you successfully used these nutrients at that level of feeding before? seems a bit low, and may also play into the PH issues.

I tend to run mine in the 600-800 range, if i feed less, i find that my PH does not automagically find itself in the correct range, and generally is on the high side. The Jungle Juice I use is not PH perfect, but it does come out with the perfect PH every time i mix em up in my RODI, IF i keep it in the 600-800ppm range. If i go higher, into the 900-1200 range my PH will end up falling off a ledge and into the low 5.3-5.4 range. I use the calimagic consistently at 20 ML / 5 gal, and the micro at 20-30 ML / 5 gal. I'll vary the dose of the bloom juice between 20-50 ML/5gal depending on where i'm at in the flower cycle.

I use the same nutrient mix on my vegging plants without issue.


Good luck sir, anxious to check back and see that Kali Mist thriving.... she's kind of a home town hero over here.


THC
 
get r done.

have you successfully used these nutrients at that level of feeding before? seems a bit low, and may also play into the PH issues.

I tend to run mine in the 600-800 range, if i feed less, i find that my PH does not automagically find itself in the correct range, and generally is on the high side. The Jungle Juice I use is not PH perfect, but it does come out with the perfect PH every time i mix em up in my RODI, IF i keep it in the 600-800ppm range. If i go higher, into the 900-1200 range my PH will end up falling off a ledge and into the low 5.3-5.4 range. I use the calimagic consistently at 20 ML / 5 gal, and the micro at 20-30 ML / 5 gal. I'll vary the dose of the bloom juice between 20-50 ML/5gal depending on where i'm at in the flower cycle.

I use the same nutrient mix on my vegging plants without issue.


Good luck sir, anxious to check back and see that Kali Mist thriving.... she's kind of a home town hero over here.


THC

High THC,
a couple years ago, I ran a Deadhead OG in an 18 gallon tub. I never went above half strength nutes on her and she put out some amazing buds - about 24 ounces of them, in fact.

At this point, I'm basically throwing poo at the wall hoping something sticks. I've ran buckets before and over fed the plants. When I did this, the plants were stunted and the buds were weird and had a plastic feel to them. Yes, it was strange. But the plants never "burned". I figured I'd start low and work my way up, especially considering these are very newly rooted clones.

I just checked the girls. I padded a touch of epsom salts to both buckets. The Balckberry is growing and getting roots reaching for the solution. I included a pic of each for those of us dirty ol bastards that enjoy underage root porn.

So far so good. I'm debating on whether to up the ppms of the blackberry or not. The Kali Mist is showing a hint of tip burn at the moment so I will leave her alone for now.
 

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Adopt a wait and see attitude my Freaky Friend. Dem baby roots are doing it 4 me! I just put my 2 sprouts n rooters up here so they could see them. Hopefully tonight they can get planted in some perlite.

Sure hope all goes well for both of us this round.:puffpuffpass:

YJ
 
Adopt a wait and see attitude my Freaky Friend. Dem baby roots are doing it 4 me! I just put my 2 sprouts n rooters up here so they could see them. Hopefully tonight they can get planted in some perlite.

Sure hope all goes well for both of us this round.:puffpuffpass:

YJ

Hey Brother, it's really good to see you. Thanks for cruising through!

Yeah, I love the root porn too. I wish you all the best with your girls, both underage and mature.

this is getting a bit weird, ain't it? OK, I'll be good. The trick is to find that sweet spot to really get them to grow. I've been in hand watered coco (full strength nutes and can get the solution to 6.1 on the first try every time) so a long time, so mixing nutes and pH'ing with an eye dropped is a, well, it's a pain in the ass. Call me lazy. I'm a stoner. But, I do love watching the girls perform when you hit that sweet spot in nutrient levels and light and I'm hoping I can do that again.
 
It's funny that you were thinking and acting on growing some dro! We were just kicking around the idea of doing some dro also, I'm more of a flood and drain guy myself can't wait to get started again probably in a few months with my hydro venture! Good luck and watch out for monster yields! I've never seen yields like in hydro! :mpfoot:
 
It's funny that you were thinking and acting on growing some dro! We were just kicking around the idea of doing some dro also, I'm more of a flood and drain guy myself can't wait to get started again probably in a few months with my hydro venture! Good luck and watch out for monster yields! I've never seen yields like in hydro! :mpfoot:

Great minds think alike, my friend. I wish i had the ceiling height needed for flood and drain. I only have 6'6" to work with for height. Not quite enough for me to be comfortable growing monsters in a tray. Also, it looks like i'll only be able to do hydro during the colder months here. Too damn hot in the summer and all kinds of funk will grow in the rez.


Update: I changed out the buckets today and refilled with a bit stronger solution.
 
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