Death by cloning.

Slim Pickens

Slim Pickens

I Blue my mind.
I have been experiencing an ongoing problem with cloning.I have been putting cuts to rockwool cubes,because I thought I was being really successful .I would cut,dip in dip and grow and plant into a wet RW cube,then into a clear tote under t8's.If they looked wilted,then I would add a cup over the cut as a dome.After 10 days or so I would pot them to Happy Frog.I was losing a high percentage.It was suggested that the HF might be a little hot,so I started using FF Light Warrior.The cuts would look like they were doing fine after potting them up,but after a couple of weeks they would decline and then die.Turns out they never developed roots.Not even a bump.Not all would die,but a significant percentage would.Temps are 75 during lights on and 68-70 with lights off.

Tempted to try just plopping them in water,couldn't do any worse than I am doing now.Maybe I should be looking for a small cloner...or maybe I'm to dam* stupid and should just stick to seeds or dispensary bud.:sad2:

I've got 2 remaining cuts of something I waited a long time for,and they don't look happy...at all.
 
I have no experience with HF but what you could use instead is some seed starter soil for starting flowers and veggies. I have great success with seed starter soils. Its very light so it wont compact the roots.
 
IMG_2145.JPG Just doing a batch right now .. And some strains are easier faster on cloning than others so don't fret . These Gorilla Glue # 4 were all rooting faster than the Chem D or Grape Jelly for some reason . But Let me ask you cause the roots are to be babied now did you keep warmth to the roots as in a heating pad ? set the temp @ around 80 F & watch the magic .. I do about like you as instead of Rockwool I use Oasis Cubes and dip in CloneXafter take your razor blade & scratch a lil on each side of the bottom stem & that will promote root to come out there then water and spray with Olivia's Juice within 10 to 14 days you should be on target Don't give up yet bro you are on the way to a victory garden :cheerleader: But are you re potting in soil till you see roots appearing first ? :whistle:
 
perhaps you're jumping the gun and planting them before enough roots have developed. also, try to keep the soil loose and uncompressed and not overwater. :2c:
 
Are you measuring soil temp? Slim

Soil/rockwool/peat pucks temp needs to be in the upper 70's

Just lost 12 BD cuts to cold pucks.
 
045.JPG Have a cloner bought years ago on Old CW days from Dysan when he was selling them just to have one but I like the zold school way and keep it simple stupid K.I.S.S. ;;:prop:
 
Whenever I grow in soil or coco I use a homemade aero cloner. I would say my overall success rate over the past decade or so has been 90% plus. The added bonus is that you really don't have to do anything to the clones while they're in there. No humidity dome, no watering, no worries about mold on the cubes. All this and I'd say on average I get roots in 7-14 days depending on the strain.

I could send over some pics if you're interested. All u need is a storage container with a depressed lid (I use a rubbermaid brute tote , some 1/2in. pvc pipe, some misters, a drill with the right size bit for the misters and a 1.75in. hole saw, 2in neoprene pucks, a small submersible pump, and some clonex liquid. I also use a small water heater if I'm somewhere cold.
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Hope this helps slim!
 
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kazzy said:
I have no experience with HF but what you could use instead is some seed starter soil for starting flowers and veggies. I have great success with seed starter soils. Its very light so it wont compact the roots.
Click to expand...

I changed to FF Light Warrior for seed starting,and seedlings.It is widely used for seed starting and the like.Only problem is...it don't fix stupid :) I have to work on that myself.

UniGrower said:
View attachment 333073 Just doing a batch right now .. And some strains are easier faster on cloning than others so don't fret . These Gorilla Glue # 4 were all rooting faster than the Chem D or Grape Jelly for some reason . But Let me ask you cause the roots are to be babied now did you keep warmth to the roots as in a heating pad ? set the temp @ around 80 F & watch the magic .. I do about like you as instead of Rockwool I use Oasis Cubes and dip in CloneXafter take your razor blade & scratch a lil on each side of the bottom stem & that will promote root to come out there then water and spray with Olivia's Juice within 10 to 14 days you should be on target Don't give up yet bro you are on the way to a victory garden :cheerleader: But are you re potting in soil till you see roots appearing first ? :whistle:
Click to expand...

I thought I had a heating mat...but couldn't find it anywhere.Had another desperate and there she was...all rolled up.I have it plugged in and some weight on it so that it will lay flat again.

east coast said:
perhaps you're jumping the gun and planting them before enough roots have developed. also, try to keep the soil loose and uncompressed and not overwater. :2c:
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Bingo.

I got anxious after 10 days or so and plunked them into Light Warrior.I have a failing (well numerous failings but I won't list them all here) and that is impatience.I figured,what's the diff?Well,evidently roots is the difference.

Staind said:
Are you measuring soil temp? Slim

Soil/rockwool/peat pucks temp needs to be in the upper 70's

Just lost 12 BD cuts to cold pucks.
Click to expand...

I think this is perhaps the bigger issue,as temps has been mentioned several times by members here,and not just in this thread.Like I mentioned up thread,I have the lost heating pad flattening out as we speak.

Dandaweedman said:
I clone by cutting/rooting gel/cup of water. Takes longer but works.
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I would honestly like to try this method Dan, as I have seen it mentioned many a time over the last 20yrs or so_One of these days I'll take a cutting just for this purpose.

UniGrower said:
View attachment 333075 Have a cloner bought years ago on Old CW days from Dysan when he was selling them just to have one but I like the zold school way and keep it simple stupid K.I.S.S. ;;:prop:
Click to expand...

I had a homemade cloner that I always used before I went overseas.It worked flawlessly.I made another when I returned stateside,and all I had was trouble.It employed a spinner on top of a riser,and every other day that stupid thing would quit spinning.I bought 2 replacement spinners,and they would do the same darn thing.

guerilla1277 said:
Whenever I grow in soil or coco I use a homemade aero cloner. I would say my overall success rate over the past decade or so has been 90% plus. The added bonus is that you really don't have to do anything to the clones while they're in there. No humidity dome, no watering, no worries about mold on the cubes. All this and I'd say on average I get roots in 7-14 days depending on the strain.

I could send over some pics if you're interested. All u need is a storage container with a depressed lid (I use a rubbermaid brute tote , some 1/2in. pvc pipe, some misters, a drill with the right size bit for the misters and a 1.75in. hole saw, 2in neoprene pucks, a small submersible pump, and some clonex liquid. I also use a small water heater if I'm somewhere cold.
View attachment 333077
View attachment 333078

Hope this helps slim!
Click to expand...

I appreciate that suggestion g1277.I tried making another cloner (see post above),but seems like I always got leakage from the misters.All I have to use is a spare room,and we just laid new laminate and don't want to take a chance.Later in the year when the temps moderate,I could do this in the garage.Truth is,I just want the easiest most reliable method to clone...and that includes minimal stress.If I can clone on a heat mat with seed starting mix,then that would be the optimum for me.Or jiffy pellets,but I didn't have much success with those either.. :)





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Well,I pulled the cubes out of the soil and...no roots.I put the cubes in cups in my tote with humidity dome.The tote is on the heat mat.1 clone has begun it's wilt down.Crap.Let's hope for the last one. :(


:puffpuffpass:
 
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I know it seems like alot of work at first but it pays off in the long run. I've cloned in rockwool, soil, coco, bubble cloner and aero and the aero is by far the easiest and most successful. I usually get 100% success every time. The key to avoiding leaks is the depressed lid. I would highly recommend the rubbermaid brute tote in the link to anyone interested in an aero cloner. They even have a smaller size if u want. I can fit somewhere between 50 and 60 sites in the tote in the link.
I should throw up a diy thread, i know dcyans did one but mine is a little different. The only reason I wouldn't use it is if I'm growing in rockwool. Other than that I don't think theres a better method.

Whatever you go with I wish u all the best!
 
Thank you for the post g1277,

I had the same success with my bucket cloner when I first built it years ago.I only gave up on the new one because the spinners would quit and the cuts would throw a fit.That and I always seemed to get water escaping onto the surfaces I wanted to protect.I wouln't have a need for a 50 plant cloner,but a smaller one sounds like it might be a good investment.

If you find time,maybe a source for the misters you used?Always open for a tutorial as well,but don't want you to feel like you have to do that.

I actually tried a bucket mister based on Dcyans cloner.I could never get the misters to produce enough mist to keep the cuts wet,and I used a 290gph pond pump.It was basically just a T on top of the pump.I finally gave up on it and made a T with spinners on each end figuring at least 1 would continue working.I should do something like what you have,but on a much smaller scale,or get my bucket cloner going and find a heater for it.

In the meantime I pulled the clones that are suffering and put them in cups on the heatmat.The clone that was starting it's wilt down perked right up.Guess we will see what happens.


Thanks again for the help my friends!
 
Here ya go slim https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAHegQIBRAJ&usg=AOvVaw33xfwhseWjRooFGBRIFnFy

They have them elsewhere if you'd rather avoid having misters on your Amazon account, just search for ez clone misters or 360 misters. https://growershouse.com/red-ez-clone-sprayer-360-degree-100-ct-bag#! I would definitely avoid the spinners. I tried em once and not only were they unnecessary but they were less effective than the misters and as u already know they are more prone to failure. I've never had a mister crap out on me but I do switch em out every few years to keep em clean. You could also throw them in some 35% peroxide and then run the peroxide/water solution in the cloner to clean everything between runs.

I can't stress the depressed lid enough to avoid leakage. I tried different totes but nothing has been even close to as good as the brute. It has the perfect lid and size to fit the pump and manifold.
 
I love using the aero cloner and Guerilla is correct leakage is the only concern. I also avoid the spinners.
 
When you use rockwool cubes, use a rockwool conditioner. Warm temps, and mist your dome everyday if needed. Wanna see some moisture on the dome. I also burp the dome everyday.

I use straight up ffof soil after I see roots poking outta the cube. Matter of fact I did some cuts yesturday and didn’t have any cubes, so just stabbed um right into ffof to root.

Of course you want healthy cuts, you want to ensure there nuted and watered up well when you take the cut.

Personally don’t think medium makes much diff, have rooted in cool temps, hot temps, domes, glass a water, aero, and I just stick with cubes these days and a dome, pretty easy really.
 
No roots in the cubes leads me to believe the problem is with the cubes. Have you tried lowering the pH of the cube before using? Try soaking them in a solution of mild nutes at a pH @ 5.4. Squeeze the 5.4 out of the cube. Dip cube in lite solution of nutes at a pH of @ 6.1. Keep all solutions at a temp of @ 70°. Hope this helps.

Kurious

Edit: leave cubes in 5.4 solution over night.
 
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A lot of good advice here Slim.

imho, temperature is the most likely the cause of your variable success.

You would also likely be happier taking cuts that are much bigger. Try leaving 3 nodes without clipping leaves.

You can see the RW cube and nodes. It's growing from transplant week or so ago.
(To be clear, the cutting sat for two weeks in the RW cube before transplanting a week or so ago.)

clone small.jpg
 
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I'm with Big's method Slim..I do it the same way, simple and done 1000s of clones this way..95% rooting every time..
 
You guys are just a wealth of useful information.

Like Big said,I've likely hit a speed bump where everything that can go wrong,does.I tried the knock-off rooters (Riot Rooters) a couple weeks ago after having read rave reviews on seed starting.I went 2 for 6,so I've gone back to seeds in a glass of water then to seedling mix when I see the tap root.Maybe the plugs work better for cuts.If Big and Rosso had good luck with the rooters,then maybe...I dunno.A seed in a rooter should work.:sad2:

CBF Witchking De Facto,and Kurious:,I went to cubes as well because I was so successful.Set it and forget it sort of.Never occurred to me that I wasn't watching my rooting temps.Won't do that again.It also might be a ph problem with the cubes as Kurious mentioned.I never even knew about conditioner.I had read about some folks stating that the cubes can affect PH,but after checking the cubes,I was getting in the mid 6 range so I thought that was good.Sounds like maybe the PH is a tad high then.

Again,I very much appreciate everyone's response.Very very helpful.
 
I can’t seem to find my bottle of conditioner, anyway, it will blow you away, when the roots come, the stalk just blows up fat, it’s like it’s shedding it grows so fast and thick.
 
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