3LB's Endless Soil Remixing

THISISME said:
This has been done and worked for so many people I don't understand why its even a controversy anymore. I do it and its so easy I don't understand why everyone does not do it.

Thank you 3LBs/TheFlintStoners.

THISISME
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It's still "controversial" because it's not what's taught by "experts" like Cervantes who haven't personally grown in 20+ years (he's too famous to grow :D ).

It also doesn't serve the interests of hydro shop owners. Organic style growers already don't spend as much at those stores as your average hydro guy, especially on equipment where the store usually enjoys a nice mark-up. The owner could tell themselves - well at least we still can make a little on the soil we sell them!

Once a gardener starts remixing soil, there's precious little they really need from the local hydroponics shop. Last time we visited one was probably 2005!
 
River Rat said:
How much DE do you add and how often? Kills bugs and adds Silicon... any other benefits? :ty:
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I am laughing right now because I know Tweedy bird's answer to this one is simple, she'd just say - "enough"!

She's a a great cook, and I was once a Chef so that's pretty high praise, eh?

While I learned to cook "by the book", I've never seen her actually open a cook book or use a recipe because she generally just uses her eye and senses of touch and smell and taste to deliver delights!

And the same is true for her gardening. She's likely to grab a scoop and add "by eye", sprinkling a heavy dusting of DE and other ingredients over a soil remix bin before mixing everything together.

When remixing a 50 gallon tub about 2/3rds full of soil, I'd add something like 6 cups of DE. When we make a soil topdressing to control potential pests like fungus gnats, the DE would go in much heavier, maybe 1/10 or 1/16th DE by total volume. We've had this mix even kill off some housefly / horsefly vermin that came to our garden in egg form via some bloodmeal!

In addition to being a good source of silica, DE also provides a significant source of calcium. It's not "perfect" in that it does have a bit of sodium and aluminum that we could do without, but other than that it's a good source of pest control with the added benefit of silica, calcium and a few other nice micronutrients.

Our latest methods are based on the theories of Dr. William A. Albrecht, and one of the critical things he teaches is to balance calcium and magnesium in the proper ratio. The liberal use of DE helps "balance" the Ca / Mag ratio in soil that's otherwise a tad too high in Magnesium when we control pH with Dolomite lime alone. :magic:

Foghorn du Leghorn
 
Great post on a issue I have held close for years. I have soil from 5+years ago and it still does the work for me.
I have done my hydro and coco, and have found the results to be inferior to my organic (reused soil) grows. I always revamp my soil with a few things. I like worm castings, blood and bone meal, epson, bat gauno (bud swell), lime, and I always give it a nice drink of subculture.
As far as nutes go I only give them Alaskan fish and Maxi crop. I like to give them Carbo load from AN and Sweet. I have replaced my Sweet for black strap molassas. For the last few weeks I do blast them with a Bud Swell Tea (home made). I bet I spend 20$ on nutes every run (50 plants).
I don't revamp the soil till I have run it twice at least. I have found this to work dispite the contriversy. Just a thought from------------------TKO-

A few pics from a old grow. All soil has been reused. The big plants are Early Skunk. The smaller SOG is a mix of Great White Shark, Lemon Shark, and NL#5.
 

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I have a question. Anybody re-using their soil...what is y'alls thoughts on rock dust? Granite dust, etc. I have read that rock powders over a period of time act much like lime. That is they buffer ph but over a much longer time period than lime will do. Any thoughts or experiences. I'm talking rock powders/dust not rock phosphate.
 
IMO people underestimate and overlook powdered rocks in their soils. Cannabis types tend to be too NPK-minded and simplify to an extreme and say, "It's slow release and I'm looking at 3 month crop cycles... I don't need it." But minerals are extremely important and having them come from a few different sources is an excellent idea.

Right now I'm relying on greensand and granite dust, the latter harvested from the forest above our home.
 
Old Fool said:
I have a question. Anybody re-using their soil...what is y'alls thoughts on rock dust? Granite dust, etc. I have read that rock powders over a period of time act much like lime. That is they buffer ph but over a much longer time period than lime will do. Any thoughts or experiences. I'm talking rock powders/dust not rock phosphate.
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rock dusts are great . . . of course any lime that was derived from a quarry is also a rock dust by definition . . . and so is rock phosphate . . .
 
Hi everyone!! I remixed soil for over 2yrs and it was awesome! After that it even wound up as houseplant soil. Thanks to the 3lb's for all the help and inspiration over the years.

Im just getting back into it now after taking a break from the indoor world for a few years. I noticed all the promix sold these days comes innoculated with myke. Also I saw a product that contained endo and ecto bacterium mixtures and benneficial fungi, it was fairly inexpensive and Im wondering what your take on these microbe boosters is?

PEAS
 
organic alchemist said:
Hi everyone!! I remixed soil for over 2yrs and it was awesome! After that it even wound up as houseplant soil. Thanks to the 3lb's for all the help and inspiration over the years.

Im just getting back into it now after taking a break from the indoor world for a few years. I noticed all the promix sold these days comes innoculated with myke. Also I saw a product that contained endo and ecto bacterium mixtures and benneficial fungi, it was fairly inexpensive and Im wondering what your take on these microbe boosters is?

PEAS
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it's really great to see ya organic alchemist!!!

we've always been fans of having a good live soil mix . . . so the beneficial fungi and bacteria are all good . . . if they are fed and cared for . . . the grower is rewarded with a more efficient soil that can assimilate and provide nutrients to plants quite efficiently . . .

a good live compost has tremendous numbers of bacteria and fungi present . . . in our eyes that's the absolute best inoculant . . . but purchasing a mix that's already been inoculated is still quite good . . .

all the best from our nest!
 
Ah,

I was wondering where the 3LB fluttered off to...and here they are! nice to see you ladies again...! Anyone know what happened to GrowGreen?

ANyway, the key to reusing meida is "glomalin"...this is only from AM which need to be healthy and creating hyphae so they will produce glomalin.

Without glomalin[1] when the media particle size starts to reduce the small particles will begin migrating downward thus increasing the meida's "Perched Water Table" which increases water porosity and decreases air porosity which increases the anaerobic conditions in media and hurts roots, microherd, etc, etc.

Cannabis has non-fleshy roots so it can stand higher % of water porosity... a good cannabis media should have:
  • 25-35% air porosity
  • 15-25% water poroisty
  • >50% total porosity
***Very few medias meet this benchmark, including all the commerical mixes I've tested (including Pro Mix)


There are things that will increase glomalin production:
  1. Increased atmospheric (air) Co2 will increase AM's glomalin production.
  2. Increased meida Co2 will increase AM glomalin production.
  3. Alfalfa meal powder may help AM produce more glomalin (thats not proven)
  4. Addition of bio-char and charcoal (aged pine bark fines is best) YOu need to make these at home, low temp is best 130-150 degrees max. A bio-char and charcoal burner is like a double-boiler in cooking without the water...we dont want to heat organic matter too much.



To reuse media it should be cover-cropped with AM pre-infected host plants such as maize. Infected with G.mossae that is!

  • Let cover crop sit for a few months and only drench with water and very light organic fert under flouro's.

  • Take care to NOT disturbs media when cutting down host plants and cannabis when it is in the media. Leave the roots, don't mess with the media.

  • After cover cropping the media is ready to go and has a ton of live AM, hyphae, spores and glomalin.

  • I can go further into this topic but if there is interested. I am doing to this soon and have been developing method and idea for a while.


[1]Along with glomalin the AM hyphae and plant roots will help hold the small particles in place thus preventing the increase in PWT.
 
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What host plants does the g mossae live on other than MJ?

If we don't have positive associations with other plants wouldn't the glomalin from other species do the same job when cover cropping?

You have any proof aged pine bark fines is the best char? The jury is still out on why Terra Preta works in the ways it does but you know the best char already?
 
man i agree fully , but even buying the organic amend ments ads up quick but i been on the kick of buying the big bag then over time i will have supply to last a lil while, been working on recycling my soils, mostly been cheating and using peace of mind ferts and a few of the organics i have still like bat poo, but seems the longer my mixs gets reused the better it seems to get.also got some wild crafted amend ments as well.
 
Old Fool said:
I have a question. Anybody re-using their soil...what is y'alls thoughts on rock dust? Granite dust, etc. I have read that rock powders over a period of time act much like lime. That is they buffer ph but over a much longer time period than lime will do. Any thoughts or experiences. I'm talking rock powders/dust not rock phosphate.
Click to expand...

It's been a bit, but...
Not only do I add greensand and dolomite lime each cycle, but there have also been granite dust and fractured granite bonsai soil. Only once or twice though, I expect it to outlast me.
I'd love to tell you yes, it was worth the effort but who knows? These additions here, those there...
It hasn't hurt.
Personally I tend to buy the assorted research for varied species of life that nutrition derived from a wide range of sources is best. while granite won't provide much taking so long to break down, I'm only looking for trace amounts.

Cover cropping? :laugh: just no room in the closet gojo!
 
I have been using FFOF with all the FF nutes. I use Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom Liquid nutes. I also Open Seasam, Beastie Blooms, and Cha Ching. Can I reuse my soil or not really because i used some salt based ferts.

Thanks for any help given.
 
If you've only grown one crop in it, then I would reuse the soil. If you introduce bacteria/fungi, they will eventually renew the soil. Farmland that is sterile from years of chemicals is reclaimed using Microlife, compost, organics, and cover crops.

Just compost your roots right into the soil and let it rest a few weeks. (HYgrozyme would speed things up, but it's pricey.) For sure add some Plant Success, or E/N & A/N, or Alaskan Humus, or MycoGrow, or FF Peace Of Mind dry ferts, all of which contain Microlife. (Check Mfg date on top of box before buying because of POM 2 year shelf life.)

I would go easy on amendments in your reycled OF until you get feedback from your new plants re: the amount of synthetic salts still in your soil. Just add some (10%-20%) EWC and a little POM 5-5-5 or equivalent. You can always feed fish/kelp in veg with High P BG in flower for your 1st new crop; them amend and recycle as per Flintstoners method.

Don't throwaway your OF- it will improve with recycling and use. Just switch to organic ferts. Your Big Bloom is organic, and your other FF ferts are almost all organic. FF designed their soils containing Beneficial Bacteria/Mykes to be used in conjunction with your partially organic FF ferts.

A little synthetic salts won't kill all of a healthy microlife soil.

I would suggest buying some POM 5-5-5 and 0-4-0 Bat Guano. They are Ph compatible with OF and are all you really need for 100% organic FoxFarm grow. OR....

Another Good Option: Go ahead and use up your existing ferts and keep recycling your soil. You paid a lot for those ferts.....just replace them with organics as they're used up. Your existing stuff will grow great reefer.... Many successful growers use exactly what you have. Just make sure you have at least 1/4 perlite with your OF....(1/3 perlite is even better!) OF really needs buku perlite, IME.

Even better, use your existing salt ferts lightly as occasional watering bump for soil recycled with new organic ferts.

BTW, I'm 100% Organic with my ferts, but not a fanatic. I prefer total organic, but I recognize that you have a very nice grow ferts/medium right now. Just my :2c:

Be Happy/Grow Safely! :salut:
 
Just to make sure we're on the same page: If you intend to use Full Strength synthetic salt nutes regularly and often, eventually concentrations in your soil will build up. (Leaching after a grow will help before recycling. You could also add 10% coco/compost/EWC when amending/renewing/resting soil.) Keep adding Mykes when tranplanting,cloning, etc. It will replace Mykes salt nutes kill. And you need Mykes to break down organic nute compounds, so plants can uptake organic nutes.

Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are mostly organic. Not sure about ChaChing and the others, but I understand they work, and I know they're ungodly expensive...... Maybe use them 1/2 as often @ 1/4 strength to augment your soil recycled with the pure organic nutes I suggested.

Uncle Ben was really good at bumping organic grows with occasional blasts of salts, and his yields outdoors were off the hook. I think he recycled outdoor dirt with blood/bone/kelp and fed as needed with dynagrow and peters 20-20-20. (Outdoor soil has buku Microlife....very forgiving because such a large volume.) He would cut bottom from pot and stick pot in amended hole outdoors. His pictures show wheelbarrow load of BIG colas... :laugh:

There are so many different good ways to grow reefer. If you ease into organics, you'll never go back, IMO! The most important thing is to: :D Keep Growing FUN!!! :D

"Don't Perspire The Petty Poop!: :rofl:
 
Hey RR thanks for the tips. Big Bloom is 100% organic. The bloom enhancers are all salt based ferts but used in very small amounts 1/4 tsp a gallon every other watering. I will get my soil recycling today. I already have about 30% perlite mixed in with soil and have been mixing in POM happy frog along with some added EWC for good measure. It looks like i have been doing a 1/2 ass organic grow already. I think I will use up the rest of the FF ferts and go from there. Thanks again.
 
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