1st SCROG Questions

[still_buzz'n]

Okay a couple of questions since I've never done this before. I have never done a scrog, but we want to on our next run. We have a 6'x7' room and use 5 gal square pots. We have never done a scrog so this will be our first run at it, but I've grown just normal indoors for almost 20 years.

1 - When training branches into the different squares, do you top your plants to keep an even canopy or how do you keep the top from stretching higher than the rest of the branches?

2 - If you do top, at what point? I normally start under led shop lights for 2-3 weeks from seed before putting into final 5 gallon square pot then under the MH for veg 2-3 weeks before flipping to 12/12 with the HPS. I have a 1000w MH/HPS dimmable digital ballast. 1000-750-500

I really want to do this right, so once this harvest is over in 5-6 weeks, the nxt batch will be almost ready to put into the 5 gallon pots. We will have Blue Cheese and Chemdawg. Thanks and please dont think I'm a dumbass. Just never tried a scrog before and trying to get as much as possible.

edit:
Once you have the branches trained, do you keep all of the undergrowth (leaves and smaller popcorn buds) cleaned up so more growth goes to the buds up in the netting??

*I will update and ask questions with pics as we go along. I'll be germinating 1st week of March.

 

[Coffee]

#1: keep tucking the newer growth into new holes in your net. Watch the branches go vertical. Depending on how long you have, those also may get tucked. If you veg. long, or have a sativa that stretches quickly you will do some weaving.

#2: kinda hinted above the dependency. If you have a fixed net height, and soil height, you better not top a lowryder…. If you can elevate your containers you have more flexibility. But if you drip irrigate for example, which is handy in a tight net with limited access, you may be limited. You want to prune under the net anything that’s won’t or hasn’t reached the net by couple weeks into flower.

 

[Coffee]

I’d consider using ties to the net if you are going to have long branches instead of weaving through the net because harvest is easier depending on your setup. But you will have to cut the plant out of the net otherwise in some cases.

Use a net that isn’t made of material that attracts or retains dust, pollen, bugs, etc.

 

[still_buzz'n]

Is 4" or 6" netting better? I think we'll have 6 plants in 5 gallon square pots.

 

[Coffee]

My opinion either work, preference based on strains.

Another thing I’ve seen is a double net with another 8-12” above, so the shoots that grow vertical are supported.

If you do that, you get a sense how much a heavy vertical branch can lean based on 4 or 6 inch net and height between nets. If the top net is 6” it can lean more, similar as height decreases.

My friend has 18 plants under a double in a room about 15 x 30 feet with lights about 12 feet up in 5 or maybe 7 gallons containers. Bottom net is about 6 ft, the top net at maybe 7.5 ft. Bunch of dimmable lamps, co2, etc. he and his workers can stand under the nets to work. For a 1-2 lamp grow, you don’t have all the lamp crossover, so you find your strategy to optimize your plants support and expose. Maybe you fashion it so the buds directly under your lamp are lower than the ones at the edge so the lamp to bud distance is the same—hemisphere your canopy.

 

[mre]

My opinion either work, preference based on strains.

Another thing I’ve seen is a double net with another 8-12” above, so the shoots that grow vertical are supported.

If you do that, you get a sense how much a heavy vertical branch can lean based on 4 or 6 inch net and height between nets. If the top net is 6” it can lean more, similar as height decreases.

My friend has 18 plants under a double in a room about 15 x 30 feet with lights about 12 feet up in 5 or maybe 7 gallons containers. Bottom net is about 6 ft, the top net at maybe 7.5 ft. Bunch of dimmable lamps, co2, etc. he and his workers can stand under the nets to work. For a 1-2 lamp grow, you don’t have all the lamp crossover, so you find your strategy to optimize your plants support and expose. Maybe you fashion it so the buds directly under your lamp are lower than the ones at the edge so the lamp to bud distance is the same—hemisphere your canopy.

Spot on! Great post!

2 - If you do top, at what point?

We will have Blue Cheese and Chemdawg... and trying to get as much as possible.

Having a bit more info would be helpful in giving good answers, you've already got a great start.

Do you have a plant count limit?
Do you have a fairly accurate sense of how much these strains stretch once they hit flower?
- this will impact when you "time the flip" from veg to bloom relative to the "screen training / filling" process.
What are your height limits / options?
- Height from floor to your light at its max height
- Height from Top of soil/medium to light at its max height
- difference of two above is the work zone to figure out vertical placement of the One or Two screens (can make adjustable to give yourself a bit of flex as you learn and tweak).
- Given your strains/lights, how much clearance do you want/need to keep from the top of each cola to the lights?
- If your lights are open versus behind glass, that can make a difference, as well as intensity and sensitivity of the strain.

Do you have a fairly accurate sense of the harvest maturity timing for each strain?
- this is helpful as 40% of flowering time is a general rule of thumb for the amount of time plants will continue to stretch before shifting to filling out without significant height change.
- if mixed strains are very different, you'd want to avoid "cross-training" (haha). Just don't mix them all together too much on screen to make harvest easier if not all at once.

In general it's about training your growth shoots to the screen, versus topping.
Topping can help earlier, to produce more growth shoots and root mass for a given height.

Are you using regular or fem seeds? It can also help age the plant before proceeding, which gives time for sexing, as you don't want to be pulling males 2 weeks into flower and leaving gaps in the canopy.

SCROG is more common using clones than seed for a number of reasons, but you should be fine.

If you answer those questions, can try and give better sense of a plan and what to expect.
Have fun, new babies just weeks away!!

 

[still_buzz'n]

Spot on! Great post!



Having a bit more info would be helpful in giving good answers, you've already got a great start.

Do you have a plant count limit?
Do you have a fairly accurate sense of how much these strains stretch once they hit flower?
- this will impact when you "time the flip" from veg to bloom relative to the "screen training / filling" process.
What are your height limits / options?
- Height from floor to your light at its max height
- Height from Top of soil/medium to light at its max height
- difference of two above is the work zone to figure out vertical placement of the One or Two screens (can make adjustable to give yourself a bit of flex as you learn and tweak).
- Given your strains/lights, how much clearance do you want/need to keep from the top of each cola to the lights?
- If your lights are open versus behind glass, that can make a difference, as well as intensity and sensitivity of the strain.

Do you have a fairly accurate sense of the harvest maturity timing for each strain?
- this is helpful as 40% of flowering time is a general rule of thumb for the amount of time plants will continue to stretch before shifting to filling out without significant height change.
- if mixed strains are very different, you'd want to avoid "cross-training" (haha). Just don't mix them all together too much on screen to make harvest easier if not all at once.

In general it's about training your growth shoots to the screen, versus topping.
Topping can help earlier, to produce more growth shoots and root mass for a given height.

Are you using regular or fem seeds? It can also help age the plant before proceeding, which gives time for sexing, as you don't want to be pulling males 2 weeks into flower and leaving gaps in the canopy.

SCROG is more common using clones than seed for a number of reasons, but you should be fine.

If you answer those questions, can try and give better sense of a plan and what to expect.
Have fun, new babies just weeks away!!

- Count limit - we can get up to 9 in 5 gallon square pots
- Both strains are 80% indica domonant, but what I've read both stretch like a sativa
- My room is not that high (in the basement) between top of bucket and max light heighth I'd say 5 1/2 feet.
- My light is behind glass...I have about 5 1/2' of growing and flowering room
- Flowering time is 8-9 weeks max
- Just growing these strains out for personal use. Could go with one strain at a time...we're not cross breeding anything
- Either Blue Cheese Feminized, Chemdawg Femenized or both

p.s. I normally know when to flip to 12/12 when just growing them out. I've just never done a scrog before. Looks like a better yield.


Thank you both for your help!

 

[still_buzz'n]

I was thinking that the cola would be growing A LOT taller than the rest of the branches in the netting...that's why I asked about topping and at what point.

 

[kushyman]

Is 4" or 6" netting better? I think we'll have 6 plants in 5 gallon square pots.

1.2" is max..anything bigger is just a sog cola holder..

too bad... but you should use chicken wire..it has strength..not some plastic 4" netting

2. most people do not scrog ..they use the net for a cola holder..

3****.keep on tucking the tops under the wire..as manyas you can do.***

.you don't want TALL colas you want MILLIONs of 6" ones protruding and not at the beginning ...at the end

 

[still_buzz'n]

1.2" is max..anything bigger is just a sog cola holder..

too bad... but you should use chicken wire..it has strength..not some plastic 4" netting

2. most people do not scrog ..they use the net for a cola holder..

3****.keep on tucking the tops under the wire..as manyas you can do.***

.you don't want TALL colas you want MILLIONs of 6" ones protruding and not at the beginning ...at the end

I have plenty of chicken wire lol I raise chickens.

The bunch of small colas is what I want. Like Reibsi has (not that large of a grow but the same idea). I don't know how to tag him here lol!

 

[nannymouse]

Some folks like to scrog each plant, in it's own pot and screen. Especially if not scrogging all clones from one mother. This way, it's easier to harvest the earlier ones, replace with a new start. Also, it's easier to treat for 'whatever' should one plant be hit with 'whatever'. Otherwise, don't scrog deeper than you can reach, and reach gets harder when the bottoms are full of stems.

When i scrogged, it was with one of those wire shelving units that the big box stores sell. The ones with the adjustable shelves. Just kept tucking. Roots were in perlite, and everything could be moved apart or squished together, throughout the grow. I had started this from seedlings, so was pulling males, as they showed.

There are so many ways to do scrog. Read a lot. Then go for it. You'll be able to detect your individual problems and adjust, if not the first grow, then the next will improve. Good luck!

 

[still_buzz'n]

Some folks like to scrog each plant, in it's own pot and screen. Especially if not scrogging all clones from one mother. This way, it's easier to harvest the earlier ones, replace with a new start. Also, it's easier to treat for 'whatever' should one plant be hit with 'whatever'. Otherwise, don't scrog deeper than you can reach, and reach gets harder when the bottoms are full of stems.

That's kind of how we want to do it...scrog each plant under a 5'x5' or 6'x'6 screen with either 6 or 9 females.

 

[Coffee]

Keep in mind that as you keep tying down the tip, all the new growth shoots that would otherwise be vertically lower are all at the same height, so they grow evenly.

 

[still_buzz'n]

Keep in mind that as you keep tying down the tip, all the new growth shoots that would otherwise be vertically lower are all at the same height, so they grow evenly.

That's my main question!??! So I continue to tie down the top of the plant instead of topping so I direct all that vertical growth into the squares??

 

[still_buzz'n]

Keep in mind that as you keep tying down the tip, all the new growth shoots that would otherwise be vertically lower are all at the same height, so they grow evenly.

I'm trying to figure out how many plants I can put under a 6'x6' netting.

 

[Coffee]

That's my main question!??! So I continue to tie down the top of the plant instead of topping so I direct all that vertical growth into the squares??

That’s right, by tying down the tip anytime it gets above the canopy height of the branches closer to roots—ie, the “lower” branches, it has the same benefit as topping, minus the cutting. The plant’s system that suppress lower growth are affected, just as you would expect if you took a single plant and tied the tip down to the lowest branches, leaving the middle section at the top of the bow—that’s where you would get the biggest flowers.

What strains are planning on?

Do you plan to mono-crop?

 

[Coffee]

If you provide 3x3 foot per plant, that’s 4 plants, buckets 1.5 foot from the edge of the net, 3 feet between buckets.
If you use 1.2” chicken wire, you get a 10 x 10 per square foot.
If your strain can fill out half of those, you have 25 small tops per square foot, or 900 per net. That means 2.4” between each.
If each of those small tops produces 4 grams of cured bud, that’s 3600 grams—3.6kg is 7.95 lbs.
if you have adequate veg. and stretch in early flower, and your strain can produce 25 x 9 = 225 bud sites in that time, then you’re good.
Otherwise you need to add plants, or change strains to one that produces more bud sites in your timeframe, or a strain that packs more weight per bud, or accept lower yield.
I think 5 gal buckets are about 12” diameter, so max of 36 plants.
The number is between 1 and 36, but probably ends up at 4-8.

 

[mre]

Great answering all the questions, thanks.
Ok, so fem seed - perfect, no worry about pulling males. Still need to think about uneven timing of harvests due to differences between the two strains, and within a strain due to phenotypic variation. Methods such as Nanny mentioned work great.

I'm trying to figure out how many plants I can put under a 6'x6' netting.

With SCROG, you 'can' put just one plant, but it would take a LONG time to fill the screen before flipping, and need to have a large enough pot to support that much root mass. Based on your height limits, SCROG would probably work well.

The key is going to optimize the screen height, plant density (number per sq foot), and timing of when to flip from Veg to Flower (usually part-way through filling out the screen with training) as you time the stretch right to get it to stop just as the screen is full and the buds are at a good target height (tall enough for some yield, not running away and banging into the lights).

Found a good resource to read. It talks about "faux" scrogs that Kushy mentions which aren't really scrogs, but more cola supports.
Hopefully it's starting to click a but, keep going until you're comfortable.

https://www.growweedeasy.com/scrog-tutorial

 

[nannymouse]

What i meant was that each bucket has a separate screen. I cannot remember who did this, used a tomato cage turned upside down, then put its screen on top of the tomato cage.

 

[kushyman]

topping it at the start of veg will give you branches you can stretch under the screen

that will have multi noded tips that will grow up through the screen

you want as many short two " tips protruding not bow the chicken wire as you can..

you want a zillion 6" colas at harvest..

and the pre training you do with branches will help that