LEDs for true stealth growing - hr...Come on Down!

D

DSOTM

Guest
I have long been an advocate of the potential of LEDs for low power stealth grows. I don't have the time to re-create some the posts I made at CW or OG, but I'd like to start this thread for folks to share their experiences. In particular, I know hr has had a working setup in the past. HR, bro, if you got the time to summarize your efforts you've got at least one interested listener.

For those of you who are new to LEDs, an array of 670nm (red) LEDs with a few 470nm (blue) LEDs intermixed will give a plant all it needs to grow and flourish. I'm talking 10 to 15 watts worth of power equalling the useable output of a 400 W HPS.

There are other aspects of the technology that fascinate me more, such as experimenting with duty cycles (Time on vs. time off, i.e., switching) and using 730nm (infrared) LEDs to reset the flowering hormones and shorten the dark period for flowering, thus shortening the total flowering cycle, and stuff like that, but mainly here I'm interested in basic growing results using solid state illumination.
 
Hello DS

the lower picture shows the plants in a good way

They are not as healthy,,,looking,,,lack of light,,,but are still very good for the minimal energy used,,,,its the furure in progress

http://ledgrowlights.com/plants/cherry_tomatoes.htm


"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark.”


resinman
 
For those of you who are new to LEDs, an array of 670nm (red) LEDs with a few 470nm (blue) LEDs intermixed will give a plant all it needs to grow and flourish. I'm talking 10 to 15 watts worth of power equalling the useable output of a 400 W HPS.
Click to expand...
I'm not buying it yet. I have yet to see a decent grow with them and to try and duplicate a 1000 watt HID you need to refinance your house.

So are you actually growing with them now?
 
Here's the system developed for NASA: http://www.quantumdev.com/products/led/ceres2010.html

Buckwheat - which part don't you buy? Plants don't use the mid spectrum light at all. In fact, the heat and yellow spectrum light are actually detrimental to the plants.

Believe it or not, there are animals in the deep sea where no light penetrates...really...:)
 
Buckwheat,,,

for small personal grows it could be something in the way as feasible

six clones at a time for the personal user,,,,a 400 gets real hot in a small chamber or closet

aint yet near the 1000 watter though

resinman
 
i also see it could be used as more of a sea of green,,,type application

no plant would be higher than 24 inches when done ,,,something like that

just might get a few kits and try it

resinman
 
Buckwheat - which part don't you buy?
Click to expand...
"I'm talking 10 to 15 watts worth of power equalling the useable output of a 400 W HPS. "
This part. I think it's one of those things that looks good on paper but doesn't produce results in the grow room like they say on paper. I'd like to see 6 clones under that wattage of LED's and 6 under a 400 HID.

I do think they are the future but I don't think they are there yet.
 
I grow in a small cab that is roughly 24" x 30" x 42" tall. Stealth for me is the #1 consideration. Even over yield. I use a 250w HID. I switched from a standard ballast because when the timer went off the hum was too loud. Now the digital one takes out the AM radio frequencies. How far from my place the interference goes is hard to say. So for me, HID is not stealthy.

My question is, what advantage would these LED systems have over say a 2' 8 bulb T5 setup? The flouro setup I'm referring to is about the same size as the scrog screen I built to fit into my cab like a shelf.
 
Besides using way less electricity, there is little to no heat output. One of the manufacturers I have spoken to, has shown me some models that don't have the green lights (which are only good to make the plant green), so you have more of the helpful for bud light spectrums. I have been awaiting to see someone else's albino bud before I make a decision.

That and for the price to come down. When they get more popular, the prices should come down.
 
When the price comes down I see them being very useful as supplemental lighting for lower buds. Or tuned to the UV spectrum for sativas like Thai.
 
I switched from a standard ballast because when the timer went off the hum was too loud.
Click to expand...
Get quality ballast...none of mine make any noise
 
I don't have the time to re-create some the posts
Were those based on experience DS?

"Buckwheat - which part don't you buy? Plants don't use the mid spectrum light at all. In fact, the heat and yellow spectrum light are actually detrimental to the plants. "

Hasn't someone else already determined that we can't simply put a very exact red and blue spectrum and expect to have her flourish? (ie those that notice a difference when adding a MH to the bloom room)

How can we be sure which part of the spectrum mj uses? Of course we can talk about leafy growth, but there's always been some debate about adding UV light and other spectrums as well to really 'tweak' things.
Obviously, if the heat is not kept in check, it's harmful. OTOH, in the winter, the bulbs are a nice source of heat for some :)

Why is the yellow "detrimental"?

"Believe it or not, there are animals in the deep sea where no light penetrates...really..."

True enough, but they do get there energy from other sources...and unfortunately our favorite plant hasn't quite made that adjustment yet :D


"I'd like to see 6 clones under that wattage of LED's and 6 under a 400 HID."
(Here's the system developed for NASA)

Without NASAs budget and pics of our fav flower finished it's hard to believe that such a small fraction of power use can produce the same results...
 
If you look at the spectrum of an HID, the 670nm and 470nm peaks are very small. All the rest is wasted energy.

The yellow is detrimental because it causes spectrum burn. You see this frequently in SCROGs when the leaves get too much light from the wrong spectrum. It is different than heat burn.

Damn, I wish I had access to the old CW archives...

As many have stated above, its not the technology that is faulty, only the cost, and that is dropping. But even spending a grand on a small LED set-up is cheaper than getting a lawyer....
 
 
Good thread. Always enjoyed DS's and HR's posts on this. Comeon HR tell us what youve been working on!
 
470 and 670nm leds are a good starting place.

A look at any HPS spec sheet shows almost no usable light in those 2 areas. Even so, they do provide enough to grow plants as many of us have proven.
A spreadsheet of the output of an HPS shows that at best ~20% of the output is what plants are looking for.

Many know much of my focus has been in helping med folks become self sufficient and with cost limitations most of my designs flow around a 250w bulb which only has bout 50w of 'usable' plant light power. A number of vertical scrog users have reported 8+z's per harvest.

Penetration is an issue with leds in a normal 'grow to the sun' type setup. That whole issue dissolves with a verti setup. Leds emit almost zero heat.. requiring a new thought process for indoor growers. No more .... 24/30" distance from the bulb. Array distance is under 6".

Have to say that folks like ledgrowlights with their array pics 3 feet from the plants is wishful thinking. A corresponding HPS setup would have the bulb at about 15 feet from the plants with the resulting very spindly plants.

Ive finally in the last couple of weeks solved 2 of the major remaining hurdles, one of which was an affordable pcb house. This project isnt federally funded so a buck a sq in cost for a 144sq" board isnt in the cards. A dime a sq" is.

Several varieties of plants have been vegged quite successfully using on leds.

Costs have been the most difficult issue overall. The internet has solved all those issue respectably.

NASA's units have a reported cost of about 18 thousand. Thats pretty well in the 6000+ dollar hammer or potty area to me.

Im no PHD in the horticultural field just one who knows the issues of med folks and caregivers. There are literally months worth of reading material online, much of it redundant but the road map of success has been clearly stated by a huge number of academia staff.

All Im doing is taking the published results, adding my growing twist to that.. and away we go.

We use different setups for seedlings, veg and bloom. This project mirrors what we have learned is so very successful, its a 3 stage project. Other than the physical board layout the first 2 are done with a huge percentage of the final stage completed also.

Leds offer a huge cost saving along with much much lower heat and security issues. Harvests will prove their value to anyone growing anything indoors.
 
DS ... gotta get the basics done first...but in my travels I have pretty well locked down several non standard inexpensive led folks.

The 720/730nm // 660nm trigger area is one that is very much on the agenda. It is sure not the only area of potential surprise out there either.
That trigger area is one that some intense focus will be spent on.

Leds for lights is kinda like the first verti scrog, requires the ability of seeing that there is a different way.... and that it just might be a better one. Of course it may not be tooo.

Virtual zero heat is fun to work with... plants and lights nuzzling each other with no damage to either.

In checking the newer high power leds for this application I find them a real waste. We have now 5w leds available. The start of this was to drop power consumption while providing equal or better results. Seedling array measures in at 34w with only bout 5% light waste. The 5% is necessary for us mere humans to see the green of the plants. With out that addition, the plants look a reeeally ugggy black.

The PAR, Lumen, watts we normally look at for lighting is pretty much useless for leds. We are not shotgunning the plants with the full 300nm to 900nm. Each led nm is chosen from the results of 10,000's of plant researchers hours.
Im sure not the only one working with leds and frankly my scholastics is far lower than most Ive chatted with. I do have a solid agenda that being providing med folks with a better, cheeper to run, easier to disguise light that plants love and prove their love by their growth and harvest factors.

That agenda, the researchers before me and the prodding of folks like DS and several others will bear fruit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top