A Basic Compost Tea Guide
- Thread starter Von
- Start date
S
Seamaiden
Guest
Hrm. I'm not gettin' into that one.
My apologies for the necroposting, but I can answer one question at least (have already posted/spoken about chlorine versus chloramine, how they behave in water, etc.)
In essence, create a cylinder of water in which one passes fine air bubbles. Those that are hydrophobic tend to stick that end onto the air bubbles. Those bubbles then gather, forming a column of foam that is comprised in concentrated wastes (protein-based), which can then be removed.
The wave action on the beach is a form of foam fractionation. The air bubbles you put through the bucket is a form of (ineffective) foam fractionation. Venturis are another method by which to inject superfine air bubbles into a given water column, and those produce a very dry (much more concentrated) foam. Foam fractionation works better the harder the water, which is why you see it much more at the ocean than on lakes or rivers (unless they, too, are rather rich organic soups).
So, that's what you're seeing, has little to do with whether it's salty, brackish, or fresh water, and has a lot more to do with hardness and dissolved organic compounds present in the water column.
My apologies for the necroposting, but I can answer one question at least (have already posted/spoken about chlorine versus chloramine, how they behave in water, etc.)
Ok, this is specifically addressing the foaming and frothing that you're talking about and that is in some pix in this thread. What you're seeing, especially when it's in the presence of agitation (air bubbles), is a foam comprised mostly of proteinaceous compounds. This is also the sole basis of one of the older forms of simple chemical filtration called foam fractionation (a.k.a. protein skimmers in the aquatic world). The principle by which it works is quite simple as it utilizes the hydrophilic/hydrophobic properties of many molecules.<snipped>
I still don't know WTF it does to the lil' shit-boogers in my soil. Maybe it's good for them. After all, there is a lot of foam and froth in some teas after being bubbled in untreated water containing chloramine.
There's also foam&froth on the beach when a wave breaks, but I know salt water isn't good for plants. Hydrochloric acid mixed with baking soda and water makes a lot of foam&froth, but I wouldn't smear it on my plants. It might harm them, but maybe not.
Maybe there's so many gazillions of them lil' turkeys, that nothing can stop them. I've heard of massive infections that mega doses of antibiotics can't kill.
I don't really know if foam&froth is a sign of a good thing, a bad thing, neither, or both. I don't really know if a plant perks up when I water with a tea because it contained buku live mykes; or if all the mykes were dead, and the plant just responded to some ferts and a drink of water.
Without a microscope or a lab report, I have no clue. (Maybe that's why Dr. Ingham is so insistent upon people seeing a lab report before buying a tea machine.) She claims many of them make a nutrient-rich tea that contains relatively few live mykes.
I believe that the foaming tea pictured in this thread started by Von is good for plants and that it contains live mykes.
I believe that everyone responding to this thread has been earnest and sincere in their desire to increase our awareness regarding compost teas.
Mostly I believe that mykes are the only ones that truly know WTF is up with mykes. They just take care of business helping plants grow, while a bunch of "Bewildered Geniuses" play the old Why/Because Game. :albert::rofl: :confused: :laugh:
In essence, create a cylinder of water in which one passes fine air bubbles. Those that are hydrophobic tend to stick that end onto the air bubbles. Those bubbles then gather, forming a column of foam that is comprised in concentrated wastes (protein-based), which can then be removed.
The wave action on the beach is a form of foam fractionation. The air bubbles you put through the bucket is a form of (ineffective) foam fractionation. Venturis are another method by which to inject superfine air bubbles into a given water column, and those produce a very dry (much more concentrated) foam. Foam fractionation works better the harder the water, which is why you see it much more at the ocean than on lakes or rivers (unless they, too, are rather rich organic soups).
So, that's what you're seeing, has little to do with whether it's salty, brackish, or fresh water, and has a lot more to do with hardness and dissolved organic compounds present in the water column.
SM: Thanks for the info! (You "fishy folks" :) sure aquire a lot of MJ related knowledge while enjoying a neat hobby.) 
My point was that I didn't know if foam proves the existence of healthy micro activity. (unless tested under a microscope.)
IMO, all foam indicates is that the tea is foaming.... :laugh: Only Jah and the wee micro critters are aware of what's really going on.
If you apply baking soda dissolved in water to the battery terminals in a car, you will see intense foaming action. No airpump or microbiology there, for sure. Guess chemical reactions are another way to generate foam. :dunno:
PS: I love looking at aquariums when I'm stoned and the lighting conditions are perfect, with some Pink Floyd playing. :flower:
Cool coincidence that fish poop water is one of Mary Janes' BFF. Win-Win dealio for us, the fish, and the plants.
My point was that I didn't know if foam proves the existence of healthy micro activity. (unless tested under a microscope.)
IMO, all foam indicates is that the tea is foaming.... :laugh: Only Jah and the wee micro critters are aware of what's really going on.
If you apply baking soda dissolved in water to the battery terminals in a car, you will see intense foaming action. No airpump or microbiology there, for sure. Guess chemical reactions are another way to generate foam. :dunno:
PS: I love looking at aquariums when I'm stoned and the lighting conditions are perfect, with some Pink Floyd playing. :flower:
Cool coincidence that fish poop water is one of Mary Janes' BFF. Win-Win dealio for us, the fish, and the plants.
S
Seamaiden
Guest
The foam in this situation at least indicates compounds, most likely organic, that have a hydrophobic/philic polarity thing going on. I can't remember the exact structure terminology, but certain molecules 'want' to bind together and make foam (or bubbles). This is a chemical reaction just as surely as applying a base to an acid (baking soda to battery terminal) is a chemical reaction, it's just a different kind.
Make sense?
Think of it this way, generating foam is generating a kind of chemical reaction. I betcha ReeferBen could explain it better than I am.
Make sense?
Think of it this way, generating foam is generating a kind of chemical reaction. I betcha ReeferBen could explain it better than I am.
The hydrophobic/hydrophilic matter you are talking about is likely phospholipids, the stuff cell membranes are made of. The nature of these molecules is to clump together with hydrophilic heads poking out and hydrophobic tails protected inside.
Protein (life forms like algae, fungi, bacteria, protists) forms in the foam as you may see in the bubbles of some of these teas. This excessive bubbling is nothing to worry about though, in most cases it just indicates good aeration and high organic content. Sticking to the parameters as outlined by Dr Ingham will alleviate the problems many encounter by adding too much food.
If I want to add a compost tea and a feed for my plants - brew the tea first, then add the nutes just before I water the tea in. So the tea is brewed with compost, tiny bit of kelp molasses and fulvic acid. Once the tea is made it can go on directly, or I'll add some EJ or other organic nutes, and water it in.
The difference between this and 'bubbling some nutes' is the compost. The compost has all the critters in it. Adding a lot of food will allow explosive growth of prokaryotes (the smaller critters, bacteria ie photosynthetic bacteria, bacillus) within the brew. When the food source is great the potential for exponential growth is great (look at humans lately).
Some of these critters divide in minutes! 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192... 12 orders of magnitude (12 divisions) could happen in a few hours and create over 8000 times as many critters. 48 orders of magnitude gives you approx 281,474,976,700,000. That's trillions! Of course, starting with compost you may already have massive numbers to begin with.
After 24 hours you may have staggering numbers of critters competing for the oxygen in your brew. This is where problems arise. It's not the bubbles causing problems, or lack of bubbles, in many cases, it's the overfeeding.
By limiting the nutrient source in a tea you effectively control the potential population. And this is a good thing. The tea needs to allow for niches to develop by limiting resources. So the critters that eat the critters arrive as there is enough air for them. This is the nutrient cycling you desire, this is what is needed to improve things in your soil, not a trillion odd bacteria, but bacteria and the life forms that eat them. More air than food is a good thought to keep in mind when brewing teas with compost.
Protein (life forms like algae, fungi, bacteria, protists) forms in the foam as you may see in the bubbles of some of these teas. This excessive bubbling is nothing to worry about though, in most cases it just indicates good aeration and high organic content. Sticking to the parameters as outlined by Dr Ingham will alleviate the problems many encounter by adding too much food.
If I want to add a compost tea and a feed for my plants - brew the tea first, then add the nutes just before I water the tea in. So the tea is brewed with compost, tiny bit of kelp molasses and fulvic acid. Once the tea is made it can go on directly, or I'll add some EJ or other organic nutes, and water it in.
The difference between this and 'bubbling some nutes' is the compost. The compost has all the critters in it. Adding a lot of food will allow explosive growth of prokaryotes (the smaller critters, bacteria ie photosynthetic bacteria, bacillus) within the brew. When the food source is great the potential for exponential growth is great (look at humans lately).
Some of these critters divide in minutes! 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192... 12 orders of magnitude (12 divisions) could happen in a few hours and create over 8000 times as many critters. 48 orders of magnitude gives you approx 281,474,976,700,000. That's trillions! Of course, starting with compost you may already have massive numbers to begin with.
After 24 hours you may have staggering numbers of critters competing for the oxygen in your brew. This is where problems arise. It's not the bubbles causing problems, or lack of bubbles, in many cases, it's the overfeeding.
By limiting the nutrient source in a tea you effectively control the potential population. And this is a good thing.
The tea needs to allow for niches to develop by limiting resources. So the critters that eat the critters arrive as there is enough air for them. This is the nutrient cycling you desire, this is what is needed to improve things in your soil, not a trillion odd bacteria, but bacteria and the life forms that eat them. More air than food is a good thought to keep in mind when brewing teas with compost.
Hopefull Stoner
Member
hi yall ,
i haven't even finshed reading the 2nd, pg. of this thread yet, but had to ask a question. oh yeah btw thanks for bring thios whole issue up in the 1st. place i am learning !
ok question is i saw a #40 bag of hummus/manure mix at wally world it is $1.34
i was going to just add water to this mix and use it as a tea . i can't recall the n-p-k on it right now.
so would my idea be proper, i also planned to add mollasses anyway to feed the microbes
when i go back i wil write down exactly what's in this stuff .
right now it seems to be a really cheap way to feed organically . what are your thoughts gentlemen ? thx. :jumpgreen:
i haven't even finshed reading the 2nd, pg. of this thread yet, but had to ask a question. oh yeah btw thanks for bring thios whole issue up in the 1st. place i am learning !
ok question is i saw a #40 bag of hummus/manure mix at wally world it is $1.34
i was going to just add water to this mix and use it as a tea . i can't recall the n-p-k on it right now.
so would my idea be proper, i also planned to add mollasses anyway to feed the microbes
when i go back i wil write down exactly what's in this stuff .
right now it seems to be a really cheap way to feed organically . what are your thoughts gentlemen ? thx. :jumpgreen:
Hopefull Stoner
Member
weigh in you all please & thankyou
i will add this tidbit of info i found out about last year i think.
the govt. /terror crats plan to make it so that seed will become pattented from breeding hybrid seed, the plan is to make it so that all big produce growers wil have to buy there seed from them or some such issue.
an effort has been going on to destroy heirlom seed that is not in their possesion / control making it hard for folks to grow there own from these re- sources as has always occured .
at the same time many areas of the world who produce great natural produce are tricked into buying imported lower quality produce . now the lands are taken over by contracts with the land owners that allow this . problem is trhe landowners are duped into these contracts that they really can't fullfill in the 1st. place. the landowners do not realize this however !
well that's all i can recall . sorry i couldn't be more detalied like i use to be , but my hard drive no longer works at top effiecieny any longer . i used to casll my brain a T.I. 1000 but now it's more like a t .
i will add this tidbit of info i found out about last year i think.
the govt. /terror crats plan to make it so that seed will become pattented from breeding hybrid seed, the plan is to make it so that all big produce growers wil have to buy there seed from them or some such issue.
an effort has been going on to destroy heirlom seed that is not in their possesion / control making it hard for folks to grow there own from these re- sources as has always occured .
at the same time many areas of the world who produce great natural produce are tricked into buying imported lower quality produce . now the lands are taken over by contracts with the land owners that allow this . problem is trhe landowners are duped into these contracts that they really can't fullfill in the 1st. place. the landowners do not realize this however !
well that's all i can recall . sorry i couldn't be more detalied like i use to be , but my hard drive no longer works at top effiecieny any longer . i used to casll my brain a T.I. 1000 but now it's more like a t .
G
Gonejah
Guest
great reading...thanks to all the contributors...
i find many conflicting times about dechlorinating water, so im hoping to verify these numbers
-VERMICO’S BIMONTHLY NEWSLETTER
Volume 7, Issue 2
a few hours sounds a lot better than 24-48.
i find many conflicting times about dechlorinating water, so im hoping to verify these numbers
-VERMICO’S BIMONTHLY NEWSLETTER
Volume 7, Issue 2
a few hours sounds a lot better than 24-48.
Blaze
Account Suspended
You can use fish emulsion if you want - it will encourage bacterial growth. However, Dr. Ingram and several other sources I've seen recommend using liquid fish rather than an emulsion. The process used to make fish emulsion apparently destroys many of the oils that are contained in liquid fish. These oils act as a food source for fungi. Since bacteria will always out-compete fungi, you generally want to give the fungi a good boost to make sure they are not getting out-competed. I've been using the Pacific-Gro Liquid Fish (2-0.5- 0.3) this last year in my tea with good results. When doing a fungal tea I have been using about 1-1.5 oz per 10 gallons, so a gallon of it goes a long way. I also like the fact that it is registered for use in organic agriculture and is not outrageously expensive.
As for concentration, I've seen a lot of different opinions on what is best. I've been doing a 10-1 or 20-1 dilution, and that worked well. The plants really seemed to like it, and my sap levels nearly doubled to what I had been able to achieve in the past with organics. I've seen others just use it straight however with good results. NCGA was using it straight this year and got some pretty off-the-chart sap levels. The text-book I have by Dr. Ingram recommends a 50-1 for hydroponic use, and even less for field application. From my understanding of how teas work, the water really acts as more of a delivery system, so dilution may not be as important.
As for seaweed extract, I am not sure if this works better or not. You may want to look into what the differences are in how they are produced vs. the soluble powders. I've been using the Maxi-Crop soluble sea weed powder (1.0 - 0.0 - 4.0), which seemed to work fine. I think the main thing to look for with your seaweed is to make sure that it is coming from someplace with very cold water, and that i was harvested from a deep depth.
FIN
New member
few things i want to add to this thread that i don't believe was covered regarding CT and or AACT.
few things to consider first, when making any tea,
1. the maximum amount of dissolved O2 in non aerated standing water is completely govern by temp,water ppm value and elevation/pressure
these factors govern your waters starting O2 saturation capacity
now the best brew temps are 65-70 IMO if you start with clean water"under 100 ppm"
at sea level your water will contain already 6-9ppm O2 depending on temp.
? now thats plenty of O2 to start but once bacteria start to grow and use up O2 this is where additional aeration comes into play to maintain your O2 saturation above 6ppmDO2.
the trick is to match your tea recipe inputs with your water temps and the amount of aeration you can provide. i know for as fact most people make only anaerobic/bacterial teas because they don't realize how fast O2 can be used up by over feeding by rapid bacterial blooms.more food is the enemy when making AACT, i know this because i have a DO meter, and i think it would surprise most how little food is required to stimulate microbial growth to the point your tea goes anaerobic and your air supply cant keep up with O2 demand. one must understand to that your compost source most likely contains plenty of nutes already to feed the bugs, so go easy on the added foods is my best advice. less is more. lets think about what were doing when we apply a bacteria rich tea to our soils whats happening?
to me the object making a AACT is to make a full microbial nutrient cycling consortia.
your tea most contain bacteria being eaten by protozoan to say it simply.
yes theres nematodes too in that consortia
but AACT only extracts them from your post and does not grow them out, and long brews of 24 hrs+nematodes can drown, so really making tea is about bacteria being eaten by protozoa, and applying that to your soil to jump start nutrient cycling?
forget about fungi tea's, AACT is not the best place to grow them, because if you want a true nutrient cycling tea?? any fungi spores extracted from the compost will compete with the bacteria early on for O2 and food but will loose that battle beside once the bacteria become established the pH will rise above their liking to 7+, fungi like lower.
if a fungi tea is wanted??? best to brew for a short time before bacteria take over
say 10-15 hrs? but you really need a microscope to see whats happening
but i still think fungi tea is a waste of time, if you want fungi add good soil/compost/forest duff
to your medium, or add known myco's to your medium
hope my ramblings made some sense will dive into this some more later
few things to consider first, when making any tea,
1. the maximum amount of dissolved O2 in non aerated standing water is completely govern by temp,water ppm value and elevation/pressure
these factors govern your waters starting O2 saturation capacity
now the best brew temps are 65-70 IMO if you start with clean water"under 100 ppm"
at sea level your water will contain already 6-9ppm O2 depending on temp.
? now thats plenty of O2 to start but once bacteria start to grow and use up O2 this is where additional aeration comes into play to maintain your O2 saturation above 6ppmDO2.
the trick is to match your tea recipe inputs with your water temps and the amount of aeration you can provide. i know for as fact most people make only anaerobic/bacterial teas because they don't realize how fast O2 can be used up by over feeding by rapid bacterial blooms.more food is the enemy when making AACT, i know this because i have a DO meter, and i think it would surprise most how little food is required to stimulate microbial growth to the point your tea goes anaerobic and your air supply cant keep up with O2 demand. one must understand to that your compost source most likely contains plenty of nutes already to feed the bugs, so go easy on the added foods is my best advice. less is more. lets think about what were doing when we apply a bacteria rich tea to our soils whats happening?
to me the object making a AACT is to make a full microbial nutrient cycling consortia.
your tea most contain bacteria being eaten by protozoan to say it simply.
yes theres nematodes too in that consortia
but AACT only extracts them from your post and does not grow them out, and long brews of 24 hrs+nematodes can drown, so really making tea is about bacteria being eaten by protozoa, and applying that to your soil to jump start nutrient cycling?
forget about fungi tea's, AACT is not the best place to grow them, because if you want a true nutrient cycling tea?? any fungi spores extracted from the compost will compete with the bacteria early on for O2 and food but will loose that battle beside once the bacteria become established the pH will rise above their liking to 7+, fungi like lower.
if a fungi tea is wanted??? best to brew for a short time before bacteria take over
say 10-15 hrs? but you really need a microscope to see whats happening
but i still think fungi tea is a waste of time, if you want fungi add good soil/compost/forest duff
to your medium, or add known myco's to your medium
hope my ramblings made some sense will dive into this some more later
Chookface
Dead Head
pretty solid post FIN. i agree with you and the whole over feeding thing thing causing an anaerobic boom never occurred to me, very interesting stuff. And yea it seems best to try and give the fungi a leg up in the soil before you start adding teas, get the fungi set as best you can then boom the bacteria n such.
got a recipe we could see?
got a recipe we could see?
FIN
New member
chookface, im not so sure about giving the fungi a leg up to say but you could consider the point if your trying to encourage strick aerobic fungi growth in the soil that if you add anything to the soil "food/bacteria" in large numbers theres a risk causing anaerobic conditions if a bacterial bloom occurs without enough O2 exchange occurring in the medium. low O2 environments would select growth and encourage those types of organisms??
now that being said the soil is a great buffer if good soil life is present, you dump a bunch of foods in your soil, O2 levels drop? the aerobic bugs in the soil will not like it but will try to put the system back in balance?? or will recover once O2 is available?
further balencing back the system,
tis MHO you would not want to add anything to the soil that would throw it out of wack? basically nothing that would drop O2 levels that much at once?
it's about balance.
a good AACT with a functioning nutrient cycling consorta is pH neutral and the tea will be above 6ppm D O2 so one would think that adding this type of tea would not have a negative impact on O2 in the soil?, the protozoan mainly flagellates keep bacterial #s in check, these protozoa are aerobic organisms, so a drop in O2 would effect them.
nature always has a back up, another type of proto is a ciliates, they can thrive in low O2 conditions and if you have a microscope you can view your tea, if your tea has more of them them say flagellates or amoeba chances are your tea is anaerobic??
now in the soil say there are anaerobic conditions and your aerobic proto populations are lacking the ciliates will keep bacteria #s in check? natures back up plan.
recipe, to come up with a recipe its really is about how much air you can provide? temps/inputs
a med fish aquarium air pump will do a gallon at most properly? i have to laugh when i see people use these air pumps for 5 g+ and add things like 1/2 cup mollasesss...lol..lol
1/2 cup alone is almost too much depeding? for 50 g batch. at least from my observation but it's a fine line because you can add anything you want but you have to make sure you have enough air/O2 to keep up with the bug growth
recipe 1 g water temp 65-70 brew time will depend on water temps and whether your compost source has any ACTIVE? organisms present? and not mostly dormant bugs?
most cast doesnt have much active so longer brew time to grow them out, start with an active source" fresh vermipost/good topsoil/ some soil from your present grow? should contain active bugs, expect that brew to be much shorter 12-20hrs compared to using a mostly inactive source 24-48hrs+++
1 g recipe, as much air as possible, biggest air pump you can find
hand full cast
1 ml molasses
1 ml kelp
1 ml fish H.
pinch of some kind rock dust
you can use smell as an indicator of tea gone anaerobic but ive brewed tea that smell great but that were really anaerobic once i dropped the DO meter in told the real story
now when some makes a tea with the kitchen sick in it and applies to the plant what going on? yeah some soluble salts such as NH4 ete ete are being absorbed directly by the plant roots in the case of using a guano or cast? but the majority is non avilible, it's main purposs is food for the bacteria and fungi, only once they eat and retain these nutes and are eaten by proto's nemo ete and are shitted out in a plant available soluble form will the plant benefit.
so really if you make hot guano tea, you are risking anaerobic conditions in the soil besides potental burn, but the great thing about soil is it's very forgiving and the micro buggies will balance our mistakes in the end?
again hope my ramblings made some sence????
now that being said the soil is a great buffer if good soil life is present, you dump a bunch of foods in your soil, O2 levels drop? the aerobic bugs in the soil will not like it but will try to put the system back in balance?? or will recover once O2 is available?
further balencing back the system,
tis MHO you would not want to add anything to the soil that would throw it out of wack? basically nothing that would drop O2 levels that much at once?
it's about balance.
a good AACT with a functioning nutrient cycling consorta is pH neutral and the tea will be above 6ppm D O2 so one would think that adding this type of tea would not have a negative impact on O2 in the soil?, the protozoan mainly flagellates keep bacterial #s in check, these protozoa are aerobic organisms, so a drop in O2 would effect them.
nature always has a back up, another type of proto is a ciliates, they can thrive in low O2 conditions and if you have a microscope you can view your tea, if your tea has more of them them say flagellates or amoeba chances are your tea is anaerobic??
now in the soil say there are anaerobic conditions and your aerobic proto populations are lacking the ciliates will keep bacteria #s in check? natures back up plan.
recipe, to come up with a recipe its really is about how much air you can provide? temps/inputs
a med fish aquarium air pump will do a gallon at most properly? i have to laugh when i see people use these air pumps for 5 g+ and add things like 1/2 cup mollasesss...lol..lol
1/2 cup alone is almost too much depeding? for 50 g batch. at least from my observation but it's a fine line because you can add anything you want but you have to make sure you have enough air/O2 to keep up with the bug growth
recipe 1 g water temp 65-70 brew time will depend on water temps and whether your compost source has any ACTIVE? organisms present? and not mostly dormant bugs?
most cast doesnt have much active so longer brew time to grow them out, start with an active source" fresh vermipost/good topsoil/ some soil from your present grow? should contain active bugs, expect that brew to be much shorter 12-20hrs compared to using a mostly inactive source 24-48hrs+++
1 g recipe, as much air as possible, biggest air pump you can find
hand full cast
1 ml molasses
1 ml kelp
1 ml fish H.
pinch of some kind rock dust
you can use smell as an indicator of tea gone anaerobic but ive brewed tea that smell great but that were really anaerobic once i dropped the DO meter in told the real story
now when some makes a tea with the kitchen sick in it and applies to the plant what going on? yeah some soluble salts such as NH4 ete ete are being absorbed directly by the plant roots in the case of using a guano or cast? but the majority is non avilible, it's main purposs is food for the bacteria and fungi, only once they eat and retain these nutes and are eaten by proto's nemo ete and are shitted out in a plant available soluble form will the plant benefit.
so really if you make hot guano tea, you are risking anaerobic conditions in the soil besides potental burn, but the great thing about soil is it's very forgiving and the micro buggies will balance our mistakes in the end?
again hope my ramblings made some sence????
Blaze
Account Suspended
That's great you've got an O2 meter FIN that is a very valuable tool for making teas. You are dead-on about O2 levels being very very important too. I've been contemplating getting one myself at some point. Have you been able to look at your tea thru a microscope and actually see the difference in activity at the various O2 levels? I'm still trying to find out what seems to be the best time to brew your tea. I know if you go too long the organism can run out of food, but I'm wondering what the minimum time to brew would be.
I think that you are absolutely right about over-doing it with the molasses too. Too much and you can get too much bacteria which can cause O2 levels to drop and we all know that can be no good with teas. At this point I have only been adding 10 ml molasses per 10 gallons of tea (same ratio as you) and I think that is plenty.
I tend to agree with you about the guano tea too. From what I have seen they are not the best thing to use for AACT and can cause anaerobic conditions as you pointed out. Very little of the nutrients in the guano seem to be extracted in the tea as well. I think they may work better if you use small amounts of guano in addition to compost since I'm sure the guanos must contain different organism than you would find in most compost or in earth worm castings.
IMHO teas should not be used to provide nutrients to the plants - they work best to add biology to the soil which in turn makes the existing nutrients more available. They are not a substitute for fertilizers.
I think that you are absolutely right about over-doing it with the molasses too. Too much and you can get too much bacteria which can cause O2 levels to drop and we all know that can be no good with teas. At this point I have only been adding 10 ml molasses per 10 gallons of tea (same ratio as you) and I think that is plenty.
I tend to agree with you about the guano tea too. From what I have seen they are not the best thing to use for AACT and can cause anaerobic conditions as you pointed out. Very little of the nutrients in the guano seem to be extracted in the tea as well. I think they may work better if you use small amounts of guano in addition to compost since I'm sure the guanos must contain different organism than you would find in most compost or in earth worm castings.
IMHO teas should not be used to provide nutrients to the plants - they work best to add biology to the soil which in turn makes the existing nutrients more available. They are not a substitute for fertilizers.
Time
Wayward Wanderer
Tea's do enhance the microbiological activity in a soil... Also, guano teas are packed full of ready to use micro and macro nutrients.
When I'm growing organic cannabis my goal is to feed the soil, not to fertilize the plants. I use a hot soil and try to stay away from the bottle as much as possible lol.
When I'm growing organic cannabis my goal is to feed the soil, not to fertilize the plants. I use a hot soil and try to stay away from the bottle as much as possible lol.
FIN
New member
i should have been more clear with my comments regarding teas because there are different types, they are all different tools to be used accordingly to what you are trying to accomplish? they should not be lumped together as one thing or that they do the same things and benefit the soil/plant the same ways.
many ways to do things, fore instance, some amend their soil heavily from the get go needing non to very little of any type of liquid fert/food of any kind?
some prefer to use a plain soil less mix ete and add all there organic's ete through liquid.
both these methods require different input strategies.
it seems most of this thread is taking about AACT, from the mentions of doc I.
"actively aerated compost tea", is just that, aerated compost with the goal to grow out aerobic bennificals, a good AACT should contain a full "functioning" consorta of nutrient cycling organisms. this type of tea should never drop below 6ppm DO at anytime though some brews can go below that value during the bacterial bloom and recover back above and still produce a good tea? but the best tea's never go below 6ppm DO, you do not want to encourage any facultative anaerobes bacteria growth during the DO dip. tis why you need a DO meter and microscope to confirm whats what? IMO the only way to adjust a recipe. this type of tea could be considered a fert of sorts but in the classic sense of things NPK value is very low. but none the less there is some? readily available chelated nutes from the extract of the compost/cast-added foods? and from the proto's munching up bacteria during brew and releasing it to solution? but it's a double edged sword because any ions released will be used as food by the bacteria aswell? as a food source and retained? and once again released back to solution after being eaten? probably the most nutes in solution would be a the point of peak protozoa growth and reduced bacteria population? now AACT has other goodies too besides the biology/NPK-nutes...different enzymes,organic acids,vitamins? ete
CT and guano tea'
when "i" think CT i think of a extract of compost with no added foods at all, can be aerated or not, some call it LCE
liquid compost extract, this type of tea is more about extracting higher levels of soluble nutes/food ete ete from the post then growing out active biology. there will be some striping of dormant/active biology as well from that process but to me it;s about nutes/food here.
to me this qualifies as a fert/food.
same thing with the guano tea, theres plenty of NPK value there, some instantly available rest readily and quickly converted to available by biology
blaze, to answer some your questions. regarding O2 levels and bug growth.
you will always have bacterial/fungi-yeast growth no mater what, the problem is your trying to grow out aerobic organiums, so if yur tea is totally anarobic from the start you will have bug growth just not the ones you really want? i find the biggest deterent for bug growth"bact-fungi" if pH..below 4 you will see very little and im not sure where the pint of hinderence is at a high alkiline pH???
brew times like i said have to do with what your trying to grow out, water temps, food inputs used. tis why you need a scope? just the way it is to be exact? but if you brew at 70f with a active source figure 12-24 hrs
non active source at that temp24-48hrs
but theres really no right answer, too many variables to consider
many ways to do things, fore instance, some amend their soil heavily from the get go needing non to very little of any type of liquid fert/food of any kind?
some prefer to use a plain soil less mix ete and add all there organic's ete through liquid.
both these methods require different input strategies.
it seems most of this thread is taking about AACT, from the mentions of doc I.
"actively aerated compost tea", is just that, aerated compost with the goal to grow out aerobic bennificals, a good AACT should contain a full "functioning" consorta of nutrient cycling organisms. this type of tea should never drop below 6ppm DO at anytime though some brews can go below that value during the bacterial bloom and recover back above and still produce a good tea? but the best tea's never go below 6ppm DO, you do not want to encourage any facultative anaerobes bacteria growth during the DO dip. tis why you need a DO meter and microscope to confirm whats what? IMO the only way to adjust a recipe. this type of tea could be considered a fert of sorts but in the classic sense of things NPK value is very low. but none the less there is some? readily available chelated nutes from the extract of the compost/cast-added foods? and from the proto's munching up bacteria during brew and releasing it to solution? but it's a double edged sword because any ions released will be used as food by the bacteria aswell? as a food source and retained? and once again released back to solution after being eaten? probably the most nutes in solution would be a the point of peak protozoa growth and reduced bacteria population? now AACT has other goodies too besides the biology/NPK-nutes...different enzymes,organic acids,vitamins? ete
CT and guano tea'
when "i" think CT i think of a extract of compost with no added foods at all, can be aerated or not, some call it LCE
liquid compost extract, this type of tea is more about extracting higher levels of soluble nutes/food ete ete from the post then growing out active biology. there will be some striping of dormant/active biology as well from that process but to me it;s about nutes/food here.
to me this qualifies as a fert/food.
same thing with the guano tea, theres plenty of NPK value there, some instantly available rest readily and quickly converted to available by biology
blaze, to answer some your questions. regarding O2 levels and bug growth.
you will always have bacterial/fungi-yeast growth no mater what, the problem is your trying to grow out aerobic organiums, so if yur tea is totally anarobic from the start you will have bug growth just not the ones you really want? i find the biggest deterent for bug growth"bact-fungi" if pH..below 4 you will see very little and im not sure where the pint of hinderence is at a high alkiline pH???
brew times like i said have to do with what your trying to grow out, water temps, food inputs used. tis why you need a scope? just the way it is to be exact? but if you brew at 70f with a active source figure 12-24 hrs
non active source at that temp24-48hrs
but theres really no right answer, too many variables to consider
FIN
New member
for AACT yes, and you MUST consider water temp as well. higher temps can't hold enough O2 as water 10-20d lower, plus higher temps results in faster bug growth eating up more O2...double trouble
thats why hydroponic growers have so many issues if there water gets to say 80f+.....you get more bug growth and the water has a harder time holding O2 even with aeration.
theres a scale i need to find and post that shows O2 capacity in standing water at different temps/ salinity's...it would make things clearer
Time
Wayward Wanderer
Knowing when to stop brewing is also critical.
I've seen peeps who brew for a set amount of time no matter what.
Depending on how much food/air you have your microbiologicals are going to be at their peak during a 6-8 hour window. After that a lot of what multiplied begins to die.
