No till living soil

kushyman said:
I have done a worm bin...it works..they eat your veggie compost

takes a lot of worms and they take a lot of time..

.. get one online ..learn it and expand..

no thanks..
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I have many worms in my soil media that I cycle through grow after grow. ( Alternating soil use between grows allows time to re-amend and have it cook off without harming the plants) After much reading and many podcasts, I've come to the same conclusion that a lot of people have, in that "having a truly no-till system" in 7 gallon pots is futile. Good in theory, poor in practice IMHO.

I just ensure that I keep the worms fed and happy with kitchen craps (veggies) and amend the soil(s) with the bottom portion of old pizza boxes for the brown fibre and aeration (I cut them up in about 25-40mm squares). Their numbers will rise and fall between grows, but that's ok... they seem to work things out on their own.

They add aeration (what I really want from worms during the grow) and the little castings that they provide are just a small benefit.

My soil (with real sterilized dirt) gets far too compacted over even one grow to re-plant straight into the same media. It usually turns into a brick by the end of one one cycle and will easily shed water instead of absorbing it. And, IMHO, if you have to poke dozens of holes to prevent the water shed, you might just as well have dumped the soil out and re-filled your pots with loose soil.

I have come to use one metric to assess the effectiveness/efficiency/attention to detail for each grow... If, at the end of the grow, I still have a 1/2 healthy cotyledon (x2) still on the base of the plant's stem, I have done my best to ensure the health of the plant through the cycle.... now water droplets, touching the soil, etc. etc. can easily damage the cotyledon and make it look a bit haggard, but just the fact that it made it through to the end of the plant's life green and pliable is a good indicator that the grow went well IMHO.

All that isn't meant to bash anyone who has some degree of success at no-till, all I can say is that for the total system and skills that I have, I didn't find that a truly no-till grow worked.
 
WrinkledNugSack said:
I have many worms in my soil media that I cycle through grow after grow
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that is sophisticated..and active
WrinkledNugSack said:
My soil (with real sterilized dirt) gets far too compacted over even one grow to re-plant straight into the same media.
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yours sounds like real soil ''

.. mine doesn’t compact much because it has coco and peat based promix...but the bags of worm casting I add are like dense/compact soil..

I have to break up the root ball after each crop and the root ball becomes compacted during the whole grow process
 
You guys should either do soil tests to determine what to add back each round. Or at least figure out the minimum amount of gypsum and/or lime to add back each round to keep your soil aerated and prevent compaction.
 
I feel as though I've highjacked the OP's thread, so to kinda finish this off I'll just say that the soil I use is one of the top three truly agricultural soils in Canada for growing cereal crops. I cut it a bit with sphagnum moss to begin with and add cardboard squares after each run.

Even if I combined all of my soil in one heap, its still too small of a sample to take to a lab "even IF I could find anyone to test it"... agronomists will not sample soils that the think are from indoor grows. (not around me anyway)

Lastly, part of the reason for opening up the rootball like kushyman does, is that I throw out the largest chunks of rootball I can find. With cannabis being so efficient at up taking heavy metals, I don't want to introduce them back into the soil mix when I have an opportunity to eliminate them, even though the worms and decay would make short work of the biomass. IMHO, the small bit of "waste" is worth the elimination of this potential threat because I can't soil test.

My apologies to the OP if they are getting miffed at me, I can easily become annoying at times... most times really... and I even annoy myself.
 
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A comprehensive soil test only costs about $50 and only requires 100 grams for a soil sample. You’ll easily spend more than that on nutes or amendments. You could easily pull that off of a 1gal pot. Or take 10g off of 10 pots. And just don’t tell them it’s not ag soil, they just provide a service that you pay for. How would they know, especially if it’s mostly made up of an actual cereal grain top soil. If you are really concerned, just go back to that ag top soil you sourced from and scrape a little more and test that instead. It will at least give you a roadmap of how to amend it.

Either way, with or without a soil test, you should be adding at least lime back each round to correct and buffer the pH. And then some gypsum to aerate it.
 
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I do agree with not adding back your cannabis leaf and plant residue to the soil. You could be cycling heavy metals, as well as too much N and K. Plus all that active decomposing of the same DNA can cause fungal disease issues.
 
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Green Mopho said:
A comprehensive soil test only costs about $50 and only requires 100 grams for a soil sample. You’ll easily spend more than that on nutes or amendments. You could easily pull that off of a 1gal pot. Or take 10g off of 10 pots. And just don’t tell them it’s not at soil, they just provide a service that you pay for. How would they know, especially if it’s mostly made up of an actual cereal grain top soil. If you are really concerned, just go back to that ag top soil and scrape a little more and test that instead. It will at least give you a roadmap of how to amend it.

Either way, with or without a soil test, you should be adding at least lime back each round to correct and buffer the pH. And then some gypsum to aerate it.
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Perhaps, you could phone around and find an agronomist in western Saskatchewan or eastern Manitoba that will do a soil sample... I have, and last time I checked they refused to do any soil samples for people who are not farmers. I have an unlimited budget for my hobbies including cannabis cultivation and have purchased a $900.00 lab-worthy light meter, and spent $3,000.00 on LED lights when almost no one else was looking at them. I don't need, nor welcome, someone on the Internet chastising me for what I do when they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
 
I was not making any implications to your financial status. I was merely suggesting some science. You are correct, I know nothing of and have never been to Western Saskatchewan.

But you could just mail a soil sample. This lab in Canada looks like they cover all the bases (that’s a good pun, admit it). And they do soilless medias and cannabis tissue analysis too.

Al Canada

https://www.alcanada.com/content/solutions/soil-analysis
 

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I do not need to do a soil analysis when it is to my benefit to bust up the rootball to remove the bulk of the roots and re-amend the soil for a grow 4 months down the road. (in rotation)

I don't know why we as cannabis home growers presume that science (even though I am a science based thinker) needs to play such a huge roll in growing healthy consumable cannabis. I've never heard of a homeowner sending in a soil sample for his vegetable garden... they can see problems as they arise and deal with them based on past experience.

It's also mind boggling to me that as home growers we would want to emulate the retail market (ie: weight, length of grow, THC percentage, any of that stuff) I grow the healthiest, tastiest, and cleanest cannabis of anyone I know and if/when a real problem arises, I'll deal with it.

We need to get past this fascination with "the drug" and realize that it is just a plant like any other in the garden; some grows are better than others, and spending hundreds of dollars on do-dads for a 10% gain isn't do us any good other than pretty pictures on a forum where we garner "likes" for our fragile alter-ego. Now I like the forums and I like the "likes" and I like the pictures, but do I give a rats butt when I'm packing a bowl how many people are wishing they could be in my shoes because "I'm the man!"... hell no.

Besides, I'll bet push come to shove no one will do a soil sample (in Canada) from a cannabis home grower when they do soil samples for farmer's accounts that net them thousands or tens of thousands of dollars per farm... and, I've been told as much!
 
I'll make you a deal Green Mopho. Instead of trying to help me with a soil sample that I wouldn't do even if it was free, how about you help me with something that I really do need... I have three "must do's" on the list... you can choose which one of the three to you'll help me with:

1. It's tax season... do you want to do my taxes?

2. I have to clean house... I really HATE cleaning house... almost as much as doing taxes.

3. or, come talk with some single local ladies and help me get laid.

Those are the things that I really need. (As you might be able to tell, I have a nice little buzz on at the moment.)
 
Green Mopho said:
You guys should either do soil tests to determine what to add back each round. Or at least figure out the minimum amount of gypsum and/or lime to add back each round to keep your soil aerated and prevent compaction.
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I am too lazy to get soil tests...I do like the gypsum suggestion..I don’t grow by acres though...[ soil test conversion is a bitch]..joke

I don't get compaction due to peat based promix and coco ..ismash everything up for recycling

.plus it won’t tell me how much hen pellets and or worm castings to use..just a bunch of numbers ..

too much science/math..

since going organic I just dump stuff in and mix it.. see what happens and observe

but I am not knocking your suggestion..
 
WrinkledNugSack said:
I'll make you a deal Green Mopho. Instead of trying to help me with a soil sample that I wouldn't do even if it was free, how about you help me with something that I really do need... I have three "must do's" on the list... you can choose which one of the three to you'll help me with:

1. It's tax season... do you want to do my taxes?

2. I have to clean house... I really HATE cleaning house... almost as much as doing taxes.

3. or, come talk with some single local ladies and help me get laid.

Those are the things that I really need. (As you might be able to tell, I have a nice little buzz on at the moment.)
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A I’d keep my buzzed responses to minimum, and show a lot more appreciation For the viable and helpful suggestions graciously floated your direction.

Or maybe start a thread explaining why science and testing isn’t needed and validate and stand on the evidence you present!

I’m old school too, I try let the plant talk and tell me what it needs. I however wouldn’t turn my nose up at some help, and @Green Mopho is man I usually turn to for my scientific answers.

I also know plenty of serious home vegetable gardeners sending off soil samples to prep for the years crops! Well worth the small $50 investment to identify and prevent potential problems.

Here’s 3 things you can do for me….

1-Don’t drink and post
2-Show appreciation and respect to the members taking the time to offer helpful suggestions
3-Assume there is always room for personal improvement in your process

Curb
 
kushyman said:
I am too lazy to get soil tests...I do like the gypsum suggestion..I don’t grow by acres though...[ soil test conversion is a bitch]..joke

I don't get compaction due to peat based promix and coco ..ismash everything up for recycling

.plus it won’t tell me how much hen pellets and or worm castings to use..just a bunch of numbers ..

too much science/math..

since going organic I just dump stuff in and mix it.. see what happens and observe

but I am not knocking your suggestion..
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I don't disagree. The numbers can be a lot, not everyone wants to crunch numbers and add back specific amounts of amendments, I get that.

But you can use it as a roadmap to identify excesses, and just not add back those. The most common excesses I see are P, K, Mg, and Fe. You can basically just avoid those if you have too much and eyeball the rest, without doing the math.

Also, for those more number savvy.... Converting from lbs/acre to grams per yard for a soil amendment recommendation is fairly easy, just divide by 2 for shorthand.
 
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CurbsideServ said:
A I’d keep my buzzed responses to minimum, and show a lot more appreciation For the viable and helpful suggestions graciously floated your direction.

Or maybe start a thread explaining why science and testing isn’t needed and validate and stand on the evidence you present!

I’m old school too, I try let the plant talk and tell me what it needs. I however wouldn’t turn my nose up at some help, and @Green Mopho is man I usually turn to for my scientific answers.

I also know plenty of serious home vegetable gardeners sending off soil samples to prep for the years crops! Well worth the small $50 investment to identify and prevent potential problems.

Here’s 3 things you can do for me….

1-Don’t drink and post
2-Show appreciation and respect to the members taking the time to offer helpful suggestions
3-Assume there is always room for personal improvement in your process

Curb
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@CurbsideServ;

The badgering should have stopped after I explained what I did and why, the first time.

You know and use soil testing services because you live in Oklahoma (the States) (and the density of people and business is higher there than here)... I am not in the States and things are different here in that agronomists choose to deal with large farmers and conglomerates. I don't care about, nor need a soil sample as I have stated multiple times... plus, I wasn't asking for help.

What you have just demonstrated to the new members is that provided that you joined the group after January 1, 2024 your opinion (even when clearly stated) means nothing and this is just another board to have a pecker-pulling contest on, based on seniority.

I only came here because I like what Matt and Thousand are doing on the Syndicate; I don't need help, I don't beg for nor need seed or clones, and I don't intend on busting someone's balls on any given day...

As cannabis legalization opens up around the world, many of these places don't have the do-dads that the "first world" has access to, they have to do with what they have as cheaply as they possibly can, and at times this is what I do. This situation they are in will make them FAR better growers than we are with all of our trinkets.

1. I don't drink and I tried to lighten and end the harping with a bit of humour.
2. Respect goes both ways.
3. If you don't like what I post, you clearly have the option to remove my account... and if you've had the least bit of inclination to do so I sincerely encourage you to do so.

I'm not a child and I won't take badgering from anyone on the Internet.
 
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@WrinkledNugSack
People were responding to the info you posted. Your response to helpful suggestions were very defensive. When you post something it leaves it open for discussion. Be prepared for people to respond with differing opinions, and for them to offer their own insights. Your opinion matters just as much GreenMophos regardless who joined when or first. I didn’t see any badgering from anyone except you?
No intention of banning any accounts, lol, I just prefer a more respectful vibe around the island 🏝️
Curb
 
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