Plant Breeding Breakthrough - Offspring with Genes From Only One Parent

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ClancyG said:
Yikes! What about creating haploid Cannabis males!

Could this be the literal 'killer botanical app' for cannabis eradication?

Would these males throw pollen that would fertlize the girls, but result in sterile seeds, so the next generation of beans don't germinate? No grandkids? Will the UN adopt this to help eradicate field-grown pot in 3rd world countries.

Paranoid minds want to know.
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If someone wanted to, yes they could create a sterile line... but I believe some know how it can be reversed.. in selfing the genes are designed to create a safeguard against future problems by elimination... ie end of the line..
 
Gojo said:
This is already fully possible and is what the Monsanto of cannabis, HortaPharm BV, already does by breeding polyploid cannabis in the form of triploid chromotype. All you need to do is treat diploid cannabis (seeds or growing meristems) with a mutagen like orzyalin or colchicine which doubles the chromosome pairs from two (diploid) to four (tetraploid), testing is needed to verify that doubling took place (e.g., root squash or stomatal density tests). Then breed a diploid (2N) to the tetraploid (4N) and you make a triploid (3N), which is sterile. A triploid has two chromosomes pairs and an odd "3rd wheel" chromosome which is why it's usually always sterile. And triploids are almost always inferior to diploids and tetraploids in terms of yield, growth, quality, etc. HortaPharm BV does this so they can patent the plants they grow and force anyone who has to grow their plants (like GW Pharmaceuticals) to buy seeds for each grow because they can't breed with their sterile plants, and taking cuts is illegal, just like burning CDs is illegal, that is why I call HoraPharm BV (i.e., David Watson* and Robert Connel Clark) the Monsanto of cannabis. HortaPharm calls seeds "clones" because they self the plants to make seeds thus they call them clones.

HortaPharm BV is jockeying itself to be the supplier of cannabis seeds to federal Governments if/when Governments legalize media cannabis...then we are all "in the shit". To really screw over HortaPharm BV, if we are forced to grow their plants, we can apply one of the mutages I liseted (orzyalin is better) to the seeds or meristem of the triploid plant to make a hexaploid (6N) cannabis plant, which is fertile and often better in yield, growth and quality then triploid. Going one step further we can breed a diploid to the hexaploid and make a tetraploid which is often superior to diploid, IMO tetraploid cannabis is the future of breeding.

If the UN wanted to be evil they could easily make tetraploid cannabis (which has been done lots of times) and then flower the males and collect the pollen, then "pollen bomb" fields and the resulting seeds will be triploid. The resulting triploid plants will most probably be inferior and yields would most probably go down, as would quality. At that point the plants (in the next following season) would all be triploids and not breed nor make seeds. OTOH, like you are suggesting, the UN could make a bunch of tetraploid seeds, and then "seed bomb" fields like you described and the resulting effect when tetraploid males fertilize female diploids, or when diploid males fertilize tetraploid females would be triploid seeds. The following season the growers (unknowingly) would be planting triploid seeds and grow tripliod plants, which in turn will not make seeds so that would mean no seeds for the next season unless the growers stored seeds from two season prior before the UN focked with their fields.

Here is a helpful article:

"An explanation of ploidy"
by Robert G. Halgren, PhD
http://www.bedfordorchids.com/ploidy.htm​

*David Watson is very well known at another cannabis forum but uses a different nic I won't list in public, but many of you know who this person is...


HTH and makes sense, and I hope Alaska will correct me if I wrote something wrong.
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The use of double haploids has been used for many years with the likes of Tobacco and Maize... While Mr Watson is not my fav person and can be hostile, that said I just think he and assoc have been smart and nothing more... he has been ripped off before and is rightly looking out for his interests..
 
Gojo said:
Hey,

AFAIK David Waston and Robert Connel Clark (i.e., HortaPharm BV) don't use double haploid breeding, they use diploid > tetraploid > selfed 3-5 times > crossed with masculinized [sic] female diploid to make feminized triploid.

I think they are ruining cannabis and if they have their way we would all be forced to grow their BS triploid genetics, or at least smoke their BS genetics if raw cannabis was Federally legalized (in US, Canada, Great Britain, etc). Another wish of HortaPharm and GW Pharmaceuticals that I dislike is how they would prefer Federally legalized cannabis only be allowed as controlled product like Sativex, not raw cannabis, for example, HortaPharm and GW Pharmaceuticals (especially the latter) lobbied the UK to not allow raw cannabis as medicine and only allow Sativex and similar products! They wanted to take full control so they can make as much money as possible, it's not about what is best for people, it's about what is best for their pockets.

What bothers me most is that Federally funded studies (at least in the US) use cannabis or seeds from outside the US where they are legal, and that means they use HortaPharm genetics (at least in two studies I have found). The problem exists if they study raw cannabis (not just THC or CBD) because HortaPharm's triploids are inferior and most likely produce inferior levels of all secondary metabolites, especially considering they bred for THC and CBD chemotypes wihtout regard for other secondary metabolites like flavonids and terpenoids which have been shown to increase the medical efficacy of raw cannabis over just using THC and CBD (through synergistic effects). The problem IMO is that they are hurting the medical efficacy trials of raw cannabis or poly extracts just to make a buck.

IMO they should simply try to bred the best medical cannabis, which would be tetraploid or diploid chemotypes (like CBD or CBG or THC-V) and use their name as their brand to protect themselves, as in, only by certified HortaPharm BV seeds.

What they are doing is using the play book of Monsanto and it's ilk, and that will not make them any fans outside of big business. Hell, the next we know other breeders of seeds could learn about this and seeds to protect their interests, where does it end?

I respect your opinion, I just see much more nefarious motives of their actions than you do.
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I am well aware who they are and what they do. the ref to DH was in relation to the thread.

I presume you have read everything by de meijer? and looked at the patent just submitted?

I have asked SamS about certain things re: the future etc, I personally think you have little to worry about, but time will tell!


Quote:
I have worried for years that when Cannabis is legal only a few female clones would be used in the Cannabis industry, like in the wine industry, and the gene pool will get all that much smaller.
-SamS
But when its legal is it not gonna be some what of a quagmire as to who owns what etc... ie will GW be holding a license that says Skunk No 1 is theirs? I saw you mention about the Thai landrace before, If my memory is right was it found that in the 90's it was about 90% pure? if so what do you think it is at now? I am glad you have collected seeds from far away but what happens with these seeds in the future? do you forsee a time where they will be taken back to their native land (or acclimatised land) and reintroduced? or will they be sold to a company? I basically feel we are playing catch up and lots are lost already... preserve what you can...
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No Skunk #1 is mine plain and simple.
I can't say what you refer to when you say Thai was or is 90% pure in what?
My seeds are frozen at -30c they will be good long after I am dead.
I am both saving for the future and using some of what is useful to me.
I have thousands of Landraces and local farmers cultivars, took me over 35 years to collect them, mostly myself. But I have also used other collectors that went to a few places I never visited. This is my life work.
I am sure they will be used but I saved them to be sure someone had them.
Many areas of traditional Cannabis cultivation are under attack and the police do every thing they can to destroy the crops, not good for preservation. Thai used to be the best commercial Cannabis in the world produced by the ton. Today it is a shadow of it's past and it is grown in Laos. Things that you would think would never change are gone in the blink of an eye. I just wanted to be prepared regardless of what happened, that is why my collection is in three different countries, 1/3 in each, frozen. I have taken out seeds after 25 years and got over 95% germination. But I get 90% germination with well made seeds stored 10 years at +3c in a refrigerator.
-SamS
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Personally he has my respect, he alone has had the foresight to do the things he has, tell me what you have done?
 
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Gojo said:
Yea and I read the book too. I have all the papers authored and co-authored by de meijer.


Time has told, he is already trying to make what I wrote a reality, along with his quasi-partner in crime Geoffry, it's all in the statements that he and GW Guy (Geoffry) have made in public record, just do some searching like i have done. Everything I have written is correct, re: how GW Guy lobbied to stop medical raw cannabis from being legal, etc, et al.

FWIW, I may suggest you remove the nic David uses at ICmag because I know he doesn't like being outed even though he already has been outed in a major way.


I know all about him


Well, there is much debate as to whither skunk #1 is his or not, I don't believe it is, but that's for a different thread.

simple provide proof or shut up! and the one GW and horta use i'd say that is def his wouldn't you?

You can defend him all you like but what he and GW Guy have stated on public record is more than plain. Bayer pharmaceuticals supports GW Pharmaceuticals and markets Sativex, and GW pharma saved HortaPharm BW from bankruptcy. Bayer is pushing to have Sativex the only legal source of cannabis meds if/when it becomes Federally legalized in the US, Canada and the UK.

And what? btw me and him dont exactly get on!

His claimed seed saving is not the point of this thread or our sub-topic discussion. And I for one doubt his claimed altruistic goals, I am sure he will try to make money off of it somehow...

again so what? are you bitter you ain't making?

I didn't mean to upset you, I am just stating my opinion formed on my research into public record in regards to HortaPharm and GW Pharama.

I'm not upset

I have done more than many in terms of the trying to straighten out the science of cannabis horticulture (that includes David), and will do much more in the future with my planned experiments and research. I don't need to tell you what I have done as a pissing match, I don't care about that.


no you just want to spread your word with no proof!

What I am telling you is what David and Geoffry have themselves stated, and how what David breeds are inferior (triploid vs diploid vs tetraploid) and how he and Robert are the Monsanto of cannabis. None of that is refutable except my opinion he is the Monsanto of cannabis. And most importantly is what I wrote regard their goals to try and prevent raw cannabis being legal medicine and how carrying out medical efficacy trials with HortaPharm genetics will hurt the possibly proven efficacy of raw cannabis. If what he breeds is so good why doesn't he grow it for his head stash, hummm?

good god if he sells it to governments and makes money I'm all for it, I presume his head stash has been bred for THC to get high/mixed with flavs he likes I'm not sure thats what the aim of hortapharm etc is!

Ok, that's enough from me about David, I have written my piece. I won't be discussing the topic of David anymore, but I still will discuss breeding in terms of polyploids if other TCC members ask Q's or have info I can learn from.

good as this thread aint about him. and I'm not here for arguments

Have a nice day, gojo
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Kopite
 
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Tnx for the info, I think at least 90% of what you wrote, I'd agree with. Patent meds don't include herbal varities.
 
I'd think Selfing the plants would do the same thing since you only want genes from one parent. When you self your only using 1 parent so there is only 1 parents genes....but I'll admit I only scanned the article I'm in a hurry lol.
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Sorry if someone already answered this. Your hypothesis would only be partially true if the plant being selfed was completely homozygous at every loci. Otherwise there would be some recombination at the heterozygous loci. Also the resulting offspring from selfed plants is still diploid, not haploid.
 
suzy cremecheese said:
Sorry if someone already answered this. Your hypothesis would only be partially true if the plant being selfed was completely homozygous at every loci. Otherwise there would be some recombination at the heterozygous loci. Also the resulting offspring from selfed plants is still diploid, not haploid.
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good to see you posting.

:whacky114:
 
oops... sorry bdub... yes I agree with gojo.

STS results in selfing and while selfing is a form of inbreeding you still have recombination. In a haploid plant you only have the one set of chromosomes so what you see is what you get. Now alleles at different loci still work with each other, so there is the possibility that a haploid and an identical plant that is a totally homozygous diploid plant would have different results when grown under the same conditions... that would be a revealing experiment.
 
Am I a thread killer?

Anyone get any where with this or know of any pros experimenting with it?

Sorry to see that nothings happened since my comment.
 
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to point out that the Dr who discovered this method to create true breeding plants passed away 2 years after the discovery, I was trying to find his contact information to email him some questions I had and found his obituary, sad he was really young.

Simon Chan, an associate professor of plant biology at the University of California, Davis, whose work on plant breeding promised to help some of the world's poorest people, died Aug. 22. He was 38.

Chan had been suffering from primary sclerosing cholangitis, an autoimmune disorder, and developed complications while awaiting a liver transplant.

"Simon was an incredible scientist, superb mentor and a great friend," said James Hildreth, dean of the College of Biological Sciences at UC Davis. "His brilliant work could fundamentally change how new crop plants are generated and may shed light on how new plant species are formed."

Professor Bill Lucas, chair of the Department of Plant Biology, described Chan as "one of a kind."

“His enthusiasm for his science was contagious and his passion for teaching and mentoring his students served as a true role model for us all. Words cannot express our deep sorrow at losing such a talented and wonderful human being,” Lucas said.

Working with the model plant Arabidopsis, Chan's laboratory discovered a way to breed plants with genes from only one parent, making it possible to "breed true" without generations of inbreeding.

In June 2011, Chan was one of two UC Davis scientists selected for the first-ever class of HHMI-GBMF Investigators, funded jointly by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation to support promising research in plant sciences. (The other awardee was Jorge Dubcovsky, professor of plant sciences.)

Chan planned to use the HHMI-GBMF award to expand his work to crop plants such as tomatoes and Chinese cabbage.

Chan was also working with plant breeders in Colombia, Tanzania and Kenya to find new ways to breed bananas, plantain and cassava, staple foods for millions of the world's poorest people. That project was supported by a grant from the NSF-BREAD (Basic Research to Enable Agricultural Development) program, a joint initiative of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the National Science Foundation.

Chan was born in 1974 in Auckland, New Zealand, and earned his bachelor's degree in biochemistry from the University of Auckland in 1996. From there he went to UCSF, where he worked with Professor Elizabeth Blackburn, winner of the 2009 Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine, and was awarded his doctoral degree in cell biology in 2002.

Chan carried out postdoctoral research at UCLA, where he began working on plants with Professor Steven Jacobsen in the Department of Molecular, Cell and Developmental Biology. Chan joined the faculty at UC Davis in 2006 as an assistant professor. In June 2012 he had been granted tenure and promoted to associate professor.

Friends and colleagues recalled that Chan loved music, especially jazz. He played bass guitar and saxophone. As a teenager he dreamed of being a professional musician, but settled on science instead.

"We will all miss Simon so much," wrote Neelima Sinha, professor of plant biology at UC Davis. "He was a wonderful colleague, a rare intellect, and such a great friend. Will miss his enthusiasm for science, life, music, movies, food, people and the world in general."

Wrote Keith Bradnam, a project scientist at the UC Davis Genome Center, via Twitter: "It sounds a cliché, but I don't think there is anyone who would have a bad word to say about Simon. He was respected and loved by all who knew him."

Chan is survived by his parents, Avril and Robert Chan, his sister, Caron Chan, and her husband and two children.
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Interesting post, a subscribed thread from way back.
The outcome for Simon Chan is quite sad, thanks for sharing. Reading about this rare liver disease, it was the same as Walter Payton had...
 
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